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+--- Thread: Lorica Squamata closing method (/showthread.php?tid=23147)
Lorica Squamata closing method - damianlz - 09-20-2013
Hi All. Earlier this year I got a rather lovely lorica Squamata from Suhels trading post made up, it really is a great piece of kit however I am having trouble with the method of closure. Right now a small threat loops through punched holes in the surrounding leather, but this is quickly being torn and worn out and is difficult to manage. I was wondering if anyone had other methods of closing the squamata, or what you personally use? I'm thinking of punching a few holes for leather straps and making a strap and buckle method of closure but would love to know how others manage their kit.
Lorica Squamata closing method - 66kbm - 09-20-2013
Hi
Most Squamatas I know that people have use buckles on one side only.
I am sure people with better knowledge than me will help you out.
Kevin
Lorica Squamata closing method - PhilusEstilius - 09-20-2013
If you have a good overlap of scales you could use metal eyelets in the leather holes they are very similar to those you see on shoes for the laces, and if as I mention with a good overlap they will be out of sight and help preserve the edges of the leathers.
Lorica Squamata closing method - markusaurelius - 09-21-2013
I designed and made mine to close the same way that Muscle cuirass from the period appear to have been, double hoops with ties.
[attachment=8004]IMG_1929.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=8005]Shoulderarea.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=8006]SeamView.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=8007]Tieringandback.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=8008]SeamView.jpg[/attachment]
Works very well and is easy to put on. I found it hard to manage threading a buckle/hinge and tongue under the armpits. As you can see I put the tie rings through the second row of scales. Coupled with the authentic looping on itself side border attachment method it is extremely secure.
Lorica Squamata closing method - markusaurelius - 09-21-2013
[attachment=8009]04545_b.jpg[/attachment]
Lorica Squamata closing method - petermac - 09-21-2013
Hi Damo
The edging technique that Markus posted up is an accurate one if memory serves. I think there was a post about it (I'm sure someone will have the details). I am happy to help you re-edge your squamata this way, as it's pretty straight-forward. My only question would be how the lacing is finished off, if that is known from the original find. I would assume it would either be tied off on the inside of the edging, or more likely sewn down.
We just need to get you a veg tanned side (I reckon you'll want a full length hide but not too thick), and I have a strap cutter to cut the edging and laces.
We may be able to put the new edging over the top of what's on it. I think the problem is they used quite a thin split of leather for the edging and by just having holes puched for lacing, the leather was never going to stand up to the stress of pulling the edges together. The idea of setting rings in the squamata is good too and you could lace or strap from them. We could cut these from the same hide too.
Cheers
Peter Mac
Lorica Squamata closing method - Flavivs Aetivs - 09-21-2013
Quote:I designed and made mine to close the same way that Muscle cuirass from the period appear to have been, double hoops with ties.
[attachment=8004]IMG_1929.JPG[/attachment]
Works very well and is easy to put on. I found it hard to manage threading a buckle/hinge and tongue under the armpits. As you can see I put the tie rings through the second row of scales. Coupled with the authentic looping on itself side border attachment method it is extremely secure.
What era do you represent and what is the find based on? Because the sleeves on this instantly bring to mind the depiction of the Stilicho Sarcophagus (I am a proponent that it is Aetius).
Lorica Squamata closing method - markusaurelius - 09-22-2013
I'm putting together/making display gear for a late Roman soldier, late 4th to early 5th century (spatha and helemt are next). There are no known original finds of squamata with sleeves, however it is abundant in the iconographic evidence of all over the late Roman period.
This is my original thread regarding this armor's creation, research and final product. The details of how the edging was done, based on complete original finds from Britain and Duros are shown.
previous Scale thread
Lorica Squamata closing method - damianlz - 09-22-2013
Markus I cannot thank you enough, that closing method looks amazing, thought I think im going to go with adjustable straps as I am slowly loosing mass and am trying to get my armor to close with me. Can I ask, did you make those ties yourself or get them from a supplier?
Lorica Squamata closing method - markusaurelius - 09-23-2013
I made the tie loops myself from scratch, including the rings which I formed and then soldered together
Lorica Squamata closing method - Doc - 09-24-2013
Just a pointer.......there are sleeves represented on the Sertorius Festus stela which dates to mid 1st C AD.
Lorica Squamata closing method - alekaras5811 - 09-25-2013
I also have a Squamata on order from Suhel, I opted to have buckles on one side based on posts on RAT. I can't wait to see it. It's been delayed after their accident.
Lorica Squamata closing method - Virilis - 09-25-2013
Good call Alexious to have buckles! I have this squamata too, open on both sides and attached with strings. I usually put it on by closing the left side before putting it on, having the right side strings loose enough to slip the squamata on. When it's on me, I just tighten the loose strings.
Lorica Squamata closing method - alekaras5811 - 05-15-2014
Salve,
These are some images of the Squamata Mr. Suhel will be shipping to me in the next couple of days. I think it looks amazing even without the side closure buckles I originally wanted. I think it will be an easy upgrade. I would appreciate the groups comments.
[attachment=9907]image_2014-05-15.jpg[/attachment]
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[attachment=9909]image_2014-05-15-3.jpg[/attachment]
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Lorica Squamata closing method - Doc - 05-17-2014
Hello Alexious,
Normally, I tend to hesitate giving my opinion since people sometimes do not like the truth as in one particular case when I commented on a shield.
Anyway, here it goes and please take this as constructive.
First off we have not found any intact or complete squamatas to ascertain any definite design features so any reasonable interpretation is plausible. However, from an aesthetic point of view, you have two different themes going on. The rounded torso appearance and the should doubler. You loose the rounded effect by putting the double over it. So I would lose the doubler or have the scales on the torso straight without the curve. Secondly, black leather....I am not so sure would have been used with the Roman propensity for black under certain auspices.
If you are going with the rounded part, it would appear that it would grow out of the main garment. In this case, the main garment from the bottom just stops midway with straight scales and it almost looks as if the curved part is attached separately like a bishop mantle even though its attached to the main garment. I see this on all squamatas that are purchased from the usual companies and it is based on some collar-like round object that is unclear if in fact it would be from a scale shirt and if it were, who is to say that it was a separate piece.
The buckles in the back are too large and look like modern belt buckles. Roman buckles are smaller if you look at segmentata fragments. Now, obviously I understand that a squamata is not a seggie BUT you should use contemporary examples of items to build your armor.
From statuary evidence of double scallops on the bottom of this particular item as in the Sertorius stela, the lower row of scallops should be larger and exposed more. Of course that is a sculpture and it cannot be taken necessarily at face value but sometimes in the absence of any idea, its not a terrible thing to take a hint.
My two cents