RomanArmyTalk
Show here your Roman soldier impression - Printable Version

+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Reenactment (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Roman Re-Enactment & Reconstruction (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=26)
+--- Thread: Show here your Roman soldier impression (/showthread.php?tid=2606)



Show here your Roman soldier impression - M. Demetrius - 07-31-2013

Quote:As always, about half the group were not present...
Ain't it always the way? Sad


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Antonius Insulae - 08-01-2013

To Appius:
Well, that was harsh...
I told that I made this costume not for reenactment, but for a convention, I had very limited budget (200 €), and only two weeks time. What could have you came up with that? Also ordering things online to Finland would have taken too long, so I made everything myself. I won the second place in costume competition but of course that doesn't count anything, just mentioning...

Anyway, I am quite pleased of the tunic, it is made with authentic pattern, it is about 1 meter wide, made of white linen. Not off-white, but couldn't the high ranking officers wear white? Not hand stiched, because that would have taken too much time.
Also the subarmalis is not bad, made of linen and the pteryges have felt padding inside them. I have two linen subarmales and one made of brown leather.
The caligae are usable too, made of leather, missing hobnails though.
The scabbard is made with authentic way, from wood, leather and metal sheets, with a leather balteus fastened to suspender rings. Only the metal here is copper and not bronze, but bronze seems impossible to find.
The same goes for the cuirass, where can I buy bronze plates? And is it astronomically expensive like I guess it will be?

I wondered should I post the pictures of my costume here or not. It seems that I should have not, since "serious reenactors" can't appreciate anything which isn't 100% authentic. I'm only starting, every piece of equipment I make will be better than the last one. My goal here is to develop to a better craftsman and to make good props.
I admit that I may be over-ambitious when choosing a high-ranking officer to recreate (previously I made a centurio costume), but goals have to be high in order to achieve something.
I am making a lorica hamata at the same time, but it takes lots of time. I've already made a lorica segmentata, but I won't show it here, since it's made of steel and aluminium, so not authentic enough for you.

And furthermore there is no Roman reenactment groups in Finland, none, zero, nihil. I don't claim to be a historical reenactor myself, so why should I even make anything? Because I want to. Someday I will have a completely authentic Roman costume, I can only hope that someday there would be also more people interested in the subject, so a Roman reenactment group could be started. We'll see...


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Antonius Insulae - 08-01-2013

Quote:To be honest, just about everything about that impression is wrong.

Well, Appius, that was quite harsh.

I don't claim to be a reenactor, I made this costume for a convention and won a second place in costume convention, if that would supposedly count anything. I had only two weeks and 200 € to spend with this costume. What could have you came up with that? Ordering things online would have taken too long too (to ship them to Finland), so I made everything myself.

Now, the tunica is not bad, it is white linen, about 1 meter wide and made with authentic pattern. Couldn't the high-ranking officers wore white tunics instead of off-white? The subarmalis is also not bad, made with thicker linen, the pteryges are padded with felt inside them. I have three subarmale, two linen and one made of brown leather. The caligae are also usable, made from leather, missing hobnails though. The scabbard is made with authentic way, wood, leather, metal sheets, worn with leather balteus attached to suspender rings. Only the metal sheets on the scabbard should be bronze instead of copper. The same material error goes for the cuirass, but I didn't find bronze plates anywhere. Does anyone know where to find it, and is it extremely expensive, like I guess it will be?

I wondered for some time should I post the pictures of my costume here or not. Apparently I shouldn't, since "serious reenactors" can't appreciate anything which isn't 100% authentic. I'm making these costumes to become a better craftsman, and because it's a fun hobby to me. Every piece of equipment I make will be better than last one. Maybe I was a bit over-ambitious when choosing to recreate a high-ranking officer, but your goals should be high in order to achieve something.
Also there are no Roman reenactment groups in Finland, none, zero, nihil. It would be nice to belong to a group, but a small northern country offers no options at all. I hope that will change some day in the future.


Show here your Roman soldier impression - M. Demetrius - 08-01-2013

I wondered should I post the pictures of my costume here or not. It seems that I should have not, since "serious reenactors" can't appreciate anything which isn't 100% authentic. I'm only starting, every piece of equipment I make will be better than the last one. My goal here is to develop to a better craftsman and to make good props.

I'm pretty serious, at least as measured against most of the folks around here. I think what you've built up from nothing is among the best "first kit" collections I've seen. I don't generally post pictures here, either, for the same reason you say. There's always the guy in the room who finds fault with something: the metal for the scabbard decorations is .003mm too thick, the angle of the tip of the gladius is two degrees off, the thread count per inch is too many/too few, etc.

Strangely, many of those folks are unwilling to show you their own kit. Odd.

I'm in it for having fun, teaching a little history, getting kids and teenagers interested in the hobby, and getting down in the mud and doing things. Those who want to ride herd and nitpick on almost every effort I've submitted have made me less interested in giving progress reports. They are of course entitled to say and do whatever they want, but it's sad when discouraging words are shouted out at the start. At least that's my two denarii.


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Flavivs Aetivs - 08-01-2013

White wasn't expensive, you basically bleached a cloth with urine to get it. Most soldiers would have worn white or red, but tunic colors are debatable.

If I could make a reccomendation, you could substitute Bronze with Brass, its cheaper and still accurate.

I am a serious re-enactor, but I wouldn't say I don't appreciate your costume. For Authentic Re-enacting it needs improvement, sure. But Much of it is accurate, even in construction, and you invested time into it. It makes it worth something.

If you're looking for affordable goods, you can get a whole roman "soft" kit for pretty cheap. Armamentaria is your best bet for Europe, but there's also Armillum and Armae. If you need a good starter sword, The SOTW Magnus Gladius is pretty good for that, but SOTW is in the US so it may cost more for shipping. The new scabbard and Wooden handle is more accurate than the old ones, although they still need the little rings for the balteus replaced.


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Appius - 08-01-2013

Quote:To Appius:
Well, that was harsh...
I told that I made this costume not for reenactment, but for a convention, I had very limited budget (200 €), and only two weeks time. What could have you came up with that? Also ordering things online to Finland would have taken too long, so I made everything myself. I won the second place in costume competition but of course that doesn't count anything, just mentioning...

I'm sorry if I seem to be coming across as too harsh. I would like to say that one of the reasons is that English is not my native language but looking back I can understand why you'd think I was too harsh. It was never my intention to put you off or belittle you. I believe I've even said it was a great costume. But I was trying to help you switch from making costumes to making a reenactment kit.
You see, I've seen way too many people spend money on things they soon wished they'd never bought. My own mistakes cost me more than those 200€. The main reason behind my post was to help you stop spending money on things you'd soon want to replace.

Quote:Anyway, I am quite pleased of the tunic, it is made with authentic pattern, it is about 1 meter wide, made of white linen. Not off-white, but couldn't the high ranking officers wear white? Not hand stiched, because that would have taken too much time.
Ummm, my bad, I'd never guess the tunic is one meter wide. I can even see your naked shoulder, so...
Quote:Also the subarmalis is not bad, made of linen and the pteryges have felt padding inside them. I have two linen subarmales and one made of brown leather.
The main reason behind a subarmalis is to cushion any blows that hit you. The second main reason is to make wearing armor long-term (think at least eight hours a day, three days in a row) possible and comfortable. I've seen people suffer even with a subarmalis made of four layer of linen and two layers of woolen blanket, so three subarmales, none of whis is padded, are exactly the kind of wasted money I talked about.
Quote:The caligae are usable too, made of leather, missing hobnails though.
Except for the fact that such a high-ranking officer is quite unlikely to wear caligae.
Quote:The scabbard is made with authentic way, from wood, leather and metal sheets, with a leather balteus fastened to suspender rings. Only the metal here is copper and not bronze, but bronze seems impossible to find.
Yes, the scabbard is probably the best piece of your kit. But again, not the kind of a weapon a high-ranking officer would likely carry. And don't concern yourself with the copper/bronze/brass question. Chemical composition of ancient cupric alloys is something almost nobody in the whole world recreates with any sort of accuracy. Heck, I've had a chance to analyse several ancient finds myself (using X-ray fluorescence) and the lesson I've learned is I better forget what I've seen.
Quote:The same goes for the cuirass, where can I buy bronze plates? And is it astronomically expensive like I guess it will be?
Depends on your definition of expensive. I've seen a combination of custom-made brass musculata + helmet for about 400€ plus crest. Bronze tends to be more expensive but not prohibitively so. Or you could make a leather musculata.

Quote:I wondered should I post the pictures of my costume here or not. It seems that I should have not, since "serious reenactors" can't appreciate anything which isn't 100% authentic. I'm only starting, every piece of equipment I make will be better than the last one. My goal here is to develop to a better craftsman and to make good props.
I'm afraid this is the Internet. You need thick hide to survive here.
That said, yes, go ahead and post the pictures. Most people here, I hope myself included, are trrying to be helpful. You might not like the advice. Trust me, we've been in your place too. And you don't have to follow the advice you're given. In the end, use your own head.
Quote:I admit that I may be over-ambitious when choosing a high-ranking officer to recreate (previously I made a centurio costume), but goals have to be high in order to achieve something.
A centurion would be, in my opinion, a far better choice. I guess you hope to found a reenactment group and a centurion can be much more useful than a high-ranking officer commanding a handful of fresh and poorly-equipped recruits.

Quote:I am making a lorica hamata at the same time, but it takes lots of time. I've already made a lorica segmentata, but I won't show it here, since it's made of steel and aluminium, so not authentic enough for you.
Don't worry, I'd guesstimate than more than half the world's segmentatas were made by Deepeeka. I've seen aluminium rivets in some of those segs too.

Quote:And furthermore there is no Roman reenactment groups in Finland, none, zero, nihil. I don't claim to be a historical reenactor myself, so why should I even make anything? Because I want to. Someday I will have a completely authentic Roman costume, I can only hope that someday there would be also more people interested in the subject, so a Roman reenactment group could be started. We'll see...

Welcome into the brotherhood, and no matter how harsh some of us might seem, we do wish you luck.


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Antonius Insulae - 08-02-2013

Quote:I was trying to help you switch from making costumes to making a reenactment kit.
You see, I've seen way too many people spend money on things they soon wished they'd never bought. My own mistakes cost me more than those 200€. The main reason behind my post was to help you stop spending money on things you'd soon want to replace.

I understand your intentions, you tried to help me not to waste too much money, and that is appreciated. But I want to learn how to actually make the things, and first I have to start from something easier, and then I can gradually move to harder and more authentic materials. I am not a guy who would buy a whole kit from the cheapest internet store just to get it as soon as possible. I do appreciate authenticity, and will carefully check the things if I will buy them.

Quote:Ummm, my bad, I'd never guess the tunic is one meter wide. I can even see your naked shoulder, so...

The tunica really is 1 meter wide, it doesn't have added sleeves, and the "sleeves" it now has tended to "roll up" sometimes when I moved around, while wearing a subarmalis, a cuirass and a cloak.

Quote:The main reason behind a subarmalis is to cushion any blows that hit you. The second main reason is to make wearing armor long-term (think at least eight hours a day, three days in a row) possible and comfortable. I've seen people suffer even with a subarmalis made of four layer of linen and two layers of woolen blanket, so three subarmales, none of whis is padded, are exactly the kind of wasted money I talked about.

I know why they used subarmalis, but I'm not going to receive hits from weapons, so I don't need the padding that much. I left it off, since it doesn't show under the armour and it would have been extremely hot in the summer. It is still possible to add padding to my linen subarmales if so wanted. As it is to the leather subarmalis, inside it, and that didn't even cost me anything, I found the material from a dumpster, and just practised my skills with it.
I have worn armours for three days in a row, and I can say that padding is useful at least under the shoulder guards of lorica segmentata, and around the neck, since both segmentata and musculata armours chafed my neck a bit. Or then a focale scarf would be useful, but again very hot in the summer.

Quote:Except for the fact that such a high-ranking officer is quite unlikely to wear caligae.

Yes I know, but I made caligae now, maybe next time I try to make calcei, cothurni or something.

Quote:Yes, the scabbard is probably the best piece of your kit. But again, not the kind of a weapon a high-ranking officer would likely carry.

What would a high ranking republican officer carry, if not a gladius hispaniensis? A Greek spatha?

Quote:And don't concern yourself with the copper/bronze/brass question.

Phew, good to know!

Quote:Or you could make a leather musculata.

But do we have any evidence to support leather loricas? Since we haven't found any remains of leather lorica musculatas, and it's impossible to tell from sculptural evidence, if the armour was meant to be metal or leather. I personally don't think they were made of leather, since, even boiled, leather is not nearly as tough as metal is. Maybe, just maybe, leather cuirasses were used in the navy, if soldiers didn't want to drown with their heavy metal armour, although I haven't tried swimming with an armour, so I don't know if it's possible or not. But not everybody could swim back then...hmm...

Quote:I'm afraid this is the Internet. You need thick hide to survive here.
That said, yes, go ahead and post the pictures. Most people here, I hope myself included, are trrying to be helpful. You might not like the advice. Trust me, we've been in your place too. And you don't have to follow the advice you're given. In the end, use your own head.

Thanks, I will listen your advice, but make my own decisions.

Quote:A centurion would be, in my opinion, a far better choice. I guess you hope to found a reenactment group and a centurion can be much more useful than a high-ranking officer commanding a handful of fresh and poorly-equipped recruits.

Well, I didn't consider being a high-ranking officer any less reasonable than a lower rank officer or a miles, because there isn't any Roman reenactment groups in Finland which I could join anyway. I am not able to join a group in some other country in this phase of my life. I hope someone would start a Roman group in Finland someday in the future.

Quote:Don't worry, I'd guesstimate than more than half the world's segmentatas were made by Deepeeka. I've seen aluminium rivets in some of those segs too.

Okay, I have to think about that. My lorica segmentata is the earliest Kalkriese type, from Teutoburg forest battle, it has leather belts and buckles for fastening instead of laces or hooks. My own possible "reconstruction".

My main goal here is to become a better craftsman and possibly make all the kit myself. The weapon and helmet might be too big tasks for now, but nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Quote:Welcome into the brotherhood, and no matter how harsh some of us might seem, we do wish you luck.

Thank you!


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Antonius Insulae - 08-02-2013

Quote:I was trying to help you switch from making costumes to making a reenactment kit.
You see, I've seen way too many people spend money on things they soon wished they'd never bought. My own mistakes cost me more than those 200€. The main reason behind my post was to help you stop spending money on things you'd soon want to replace.
I understand your intentions, you tried to help me not to waste too much money, and that is appreciated. But I want to learn how to actually make the things, and first I have to start from something easier, and then I can gradually move to harder and more authentic materials. I am not a guy who would buy a whole kit from the cheapest internet store just to get it as soon as possible. I do appreciate authenticity, and will carefully check the things if I will buy them.


Quote:Ummm, my bad, I'd never guess the tunic is one meter wide. I can even see your naked shoulder, so...
The tunica really is 1 meter wide, it doesn't have added sleeves, and the "sleeves" it now has tended to "roll up" sometimes when I moved around, while wearing a subarmalis, a cuirass and a cloak.


Quote:The main reason behind a subarmalis is to cushion any blows that hit you. The second main reason is to make wearing armor long-term (think at least eight hours a day, three days in a row) possible and comfortable. I've seen people suffer even with a subarmalis made of four layer of linen and two layers of woolen blanket, so three subarmales, none of whis is padded, are exactly the kind of wasted money I talked about.
I know why they used subarmalis, but I'm not going to receive hits from weapons, so I don't need the padding that much. I left it off, since it doesn't show under the armour and it would have been extremely hot in the summer. It is still possible to add padding to my linen subarmales if so wanted. As it is to the leather subarmalis, inside it, and that didn't even cost me anything, I found the material from a dumpster, and just practised my skills with it.
I have worn armours for three days in a row, and I can say that padding is useful at least under the shoulder guards of lorica segmentata, and around the neck, since both segmentata and musculata armours chafed my neck a bit. Or then a focale scarf would be useful, but again very hot in the summer.


Quote:Except for the fact that such a high-ranking officer is quite unlikely to wear caligae.
Yes I know, but I made caligae now, maybe next time I try to make calcei, cothurni or something.


Quote:Yes, the scabbard is probably the best piece of your kit. But again, not the kind of a weapon a high-ranking officer would likely carry.
What would a high ranking republican officer carry, if not a gladius hispaniensis? A Greek spatha?


Quote:And don't concern yourself with the copper/bronze/brass question.
Phew, good to know!


Quote:Or you could make a leather musculata.
But do we have any evidence to support leather loricas? Since we haven't found any remains of leather lorica musculatas, and it's impossible to tell from sculptural evidence, if the armour was meant to be metal or leather. I personally don't think they were made of leather, since, even boiled, leather is not nearly as tough as metal is. Maybe, just maybe, leather cuirasses were used in the navy, if soldiers didn't want to drown with their heavy metal armour, although I haven't tried swimming with an armour, so I don't know if it's possible or not. But not everybody could swim back then...hmm...


Quote:I'm afraid this is the Internet. You need thick hide to survive here.
That said, yes, go ahead and post the pictures. Most people here, I hope myself included, are trrying to be helpful. You might not like the advice. Trust me, we've been in your place too. And you don't have to follow the advice you're given. In the end, use your own head.
Thanks, I will listen your advice, but make my own decisions.


Quote:A centurion would be, in my opinion, a far better choice. I guess you hope to found a reenactment group and a centurion can be much more useful than a high-ranking officer commanding a handful of fresh and poorly-equipped recruits.
Well, I didn't consider being a high-ranking officer any less reasonable than a lower rank officer or a miles, because there isn't any Roman reenactment groups in Finland which I could join anyway. I am not able to join a group in some other country in this phase of my life. I hope someone would start a Roman group in Finland someday in the future.


Quote:Don't worry, I'd guesstimate than more than half the world's segmentatas were made by Deepeeka. I've seen aluminium rivets in some of those segs too.
Okay, I have to think about that. My lorica segmentata is the earliest Kalkriese type, from Teutoburg forest battle, it has leather belts and buckles for fastening instead of laces or hooks. My own possible "reconstruction".


My main goal here is to become a better craftsman and possibly make all the kit myself. The weapon and helmet might be too big tasks for now, but nothing ventured, nothing gained!


Quote:Welcome into the brotherhood, and no matter how harsh some of us might seem, we do wish you luck.
Thank you!


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Paul Elliott - 08-02-2013

The helmet, I don't know about, but don't so quickly give up on the sword. You don't have to be a blacksmith to make one. A wholw hobby has grown up around 'stock removal', buying a simple iron bar from a store and using angle-grinders and files to shape it to something you want. You can already make scabbards and I'm sure a sword hilt will be no problem for you.

I've never tried Stock removal other than making small knives, I doubt I have the patience to make a sword.


Show here your Roman soldier impression - M. Demetrius - 08-02-2013

If you do attempt a sword, be sure to stand on things that don't burn, and get a leather apron and a full face shield. Zillions of sparks!


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Appius - 08-03-2013

And one more tip regarding the sword: do not use the cheapest and softest piece of metal you can find. Sure, it will be easier to work with. But you wouldn't believe how quickly a sh**ty blade gets damaged when you practice with someone who has got a quality blade.


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Antonius Insulae - 08-03-2013

Thank you guys for the tips about making a sword without a forge.

I haven't heard about 'stock removal' before, and it seems quite promising!
Iron bar, where would I get one? I haven't seen those in hardware stores near me. A hilt indeed won't be a problem to me. Would anyone of you know if bone is (much) harder to work with than wood? I'm thinking about a bone handle for the sword.
The blades are not meant to hit each other Appius... shields are for blocking, but yes, quality metal it has to be.

I was just today hammering a shield boss for a scutum, this time an imperial time rectangular one. The steel plate is pretty hard to hammer when it's cold. No way I'm going to make a helmet with that method!


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Titus Marius Secundus - 08-04-2013

Salve Antonius!

Here below you shall see a threat of me making my belt. It is Flavian era and you shall learn a lot my looking through these threads. You can learn more with your eyes than with your own mistakes. My mistakes making this belt so far was A. Wasting time with an unconventional method of making only passable belt plates using wooden stamps. B. I HAD to by the way I HAD to order my leather, cut my apron from 6 individual strips of leather. I could have had two joined but I didn't think that at the time, until attaching them to the belt came along. So watch out for that. It is easier to put 2 rivets into one joined piece of leather at the top of the apron, than it is to attach 6 individually cut strips with 12 rivets...two in each. In fact, when I EMBROIDERED the belt the stitched went through both the belt and apron. It's a good join. But when it comes time to renew the thread, or replace it with linen thread which I will eventually do ( as I used cotton as linen is NOWHERE to find!) it may be a challenge to replace.

I will be happy to give advice!



http://www.romanarmytalk.com/20-roman-re-enactment-a-reconstruction/319914-official-thread-making-of-my-1st-belt.html

In this link I have a thread of me making my first and only sword so far! It was my first. I didn't have RAT as a source until after I made my blade, so I didn't take too many pictures and lost the ones I did have ages ago. I used "stock removal" as it is VERY successful. I suggest that when using this method, DON'T take of more than your ROUGH shape of your sword. Use files, PREFERABLY BELT sanders ( can get affordable ones, save up, worth it as you'll use a lot in making things) to finish the final shape of the blade. Then hand sand with finer and finer paper until a nice polish is formed. Anyway, you'll see how I made the brass work mostly...

The handle. Bone is much harder to work with than wood.

A. The right bone is hard to find! You need the lower back leg bone of a calf as the density is good and the hole in the middle isn't too big. I.E KILL A COW. I tried getting one suitable one at a pet store, but there's pictures on this thread of how that went I think....

B. The dust that comes off from the bone when filling is VERY bad for your lung and maybe poisonous when breathed in.

And make your handle from a solid piece of wood not laminated pieces. Be careful as most larger pieces of wood that you buy from hardware stores are multiple pieces joined together and just look solid. LOOK AT THE GRAIN at the ends.... If you want color variation, use a lighter wood like oak for the middle part, and use something darker for the hilt, or two ends. Maybe mahogany. Do some research on what the Romans could have had available!

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/20-roman-re-enactment-a-reconstruction/292971-brass-work-for-gladius-in-process.html?start=120

In this thread you may get some good ideas on body armor. Segmentata is easy sure, but can be as challenging for fittings and sizes as any otherarmor, and hamata is probably a long process of riveting and punching your rings. So this type seems good for you.

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/20-roman-re-enactment-a-reconstruction/296165-squamata-construction.html


anyway I don't want to write an essay....but any questions please ask. You will actually find we are very friendly here Smile Smile Smile

Sam


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Virilis - 08-04-2013

This is my new linen tunic by MedievalDesign. Sorry for "pimping" the other picture, everybody mus be fed up with the cheesy effects :wink: ...

[Image: 3e479328596529ca0d44d61c7d17ad6c_zps530749ad.jpg]

[Image: 7531e09b7edb5a404c65d34382050aa3_zpsb606a4f8.jpg]


Show here your Roman soldier impression - Flavivs Aetivs - 08-04-2013

Ah yes, the new Medievaldesign tunic. I always recommend their Tunics, along with Ancient Empire Reproduction's.

I want their Yellow and Red 4th century tunic, from the Armerina Mosaics. I should have enough money in a few weeks hopefully.