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New to this - Decimvscarrervs - 07-14-2016

I have been a romanempire fanboy for most of my life. I have finally bought my own set of armor (lorica segmentata) I bought it all in ebay from india. Looks fine but I have an issue with the shoulder pad having leather that is too stiff and won't naturally sag down and rest onto my arm. I'm unhappy and feel as if I should start all over and just buy new kit parts with the advice of people (all of you) who have more experience and recognize what is more historically accurate. My helmet also came with no lining, how do I actually get it so it is wearable. Also, any reenactment groups in Texas? Let me know. Looking forward to learn and improve. Thank you.

Aso; I'm paranoid about my armor getting rusty...

RE: New to this - Damianus Albus - 07-14-2016

Hey.
I belive I could help you since I'm also quite new (2 years in Roman reanacting) so I know how difficult it can be at the begging.

But prepare yourself. I'm adamant, cannot stand trash and cheapness.

At te begging, take a look at me.

[Image: 12465810_1096990623664969_132933136984510181_o.jpg]

And more or less now (don't bother with text)

[Image: 13417463_1200300260000671_38761005978986...e=57F9987C]

So as you can see I went the whle road from poor outfit till decent one.

So...

1. Never go for cheesy. I don't accept India stuff. It's low quality, inaccurate, ahistorical and not that cheap when compare to custom made.
For example deepeeka spatha costs around 200$. This 800zł in my currency. For 1200zł I can get 100% custom, forged, hand-made spatha. What would you choose? Trust me, If my spatha would hit with some india spatha, mine would be perfectly fine; spatha from india would have dents.

2. Don't go for whole look at once. Your first and biggest misteake imo is that you bought armor. Why? Do you have tunic? Shoes? Sox? Subarmalis? Belt? etc etc etc... Look at me. I still don't have armor and for the helmet I've been waiting 18months. Step by step. You should start from poor outfit and slowly upgrade it. I belive the first photo shows it quite fine.

3. Helmets. If you're fine with pressed steel plate which haven't seen a hammer and which will sooner or later fall apart well... I can't help it. As an reanactor I cannot lie to the people by showing them inaccurate stuff. Personally I would never buy cheap deepeeka, kult of athen.... helmet. Rather saved money for custom made. Cheapest custom made Gallic I guess is around 500$ and it would look far far far better than the richest from India. You just see how cheesy they are when put next to a proper made helmet.

4. Reanacting is not like going to grocery. It takes time. You don't go to shop and just buy. You must spend much, much time for studying resources. For example, which type of segmentata have you bought? Is this type proper for the timeline and location of a soldier you want to build? You see? It takes years to get proper outfit so it's better to get expensive but proper stuff like 1-2 per year, instead of cheap and terrible at once.
For example, during my first year, I bought custom made top shoes (so they won't collapse in 2-3 years), spear, shield (but that's not expensive) and great custom made bow. For my second year, I bought helmet, subarmalis and greaves. I could simply buy all of those for like 60% of total price from India in my first year but trust me, I would look terrible and I would feel ashamed when people would look at me and think "that's a roman soldier" (cause they couldnt know how proper soldier would look like). Sure there are things you may get from India, like small parts for belt or any other "small thing" but I wouldnt waste money for "big ones"

5. So to summarize... I would stay as far as possible from india stuff. Make my character step by step, look for craftsmen which can do custom-made equipment and arm myself in patience becasue this is most important thing if you want to become proper, high-level reanactor.

6. Personally I would encourage you for Late Rome instead of Imperial period. Imperial period is more or less army of clones and it way less interesting than Late Empire.

By the way, getting rust on the armor is a great thing. It adds that feeling when you need to keep it clean or you can prevent from rust by applying some historical methodns like making dense oil olive and grease ot (once cleaned from rust). Tho for practical purpose it should be made from stainless steel...

RE: New to this - Fabricius Carbo - 07-14-2016

Search the Forum, there are threads and tutorials on making helmet linings or padded caps to wear under your helmet.
I used a linen pillowcase and felt from a craft shop to make pads for my helmet.
As for the leather in your armour, again there are fantastic tutorials both here and on other websites that will show you how to replace or soften leather, it's not that difficult, you can buy the leather strips and rivets online and replace them one at a time following the various tutorials available. If you use the armour a lot then you will eventually need to replace worn out straps, hinges and rivets etc anyway.
a light coat of mineral oil will stop your armour rusting but you have to keep it clean and scrubbed, againvlook for tutorials.
Never use Stainless Steel, it won't rust but it has a different look to it and doesn't look right.
It always hangs better when you wear a properly padded undergarment (Subarmalis) again, plenty of info can be found by using search on here.
Also check out the XX Legion website, it has masses of tutorials and info http://www.larp.com/legioxx/index.html

You don't need all custom made gear but you may have to do a bit of work on your ready to wear.

Take some time to read the forums, ask questions.

RE: New to this - brennivs - tony drake - 07-14-2016

I agree with Fabricivs  use the Forum read and ask questions Smile  I am sorry to say Damian through out Roman Millitary history the Roman army had also poorly made equipment which only private purchase could improve, you have to look at all finds from all periods to give a balanced view of the quality of equipment, and as being Reanactors  we have the same choice as a Roman soldier to keep it simple or bling it up or both Cool
Regards Brennivs Big Grin

RE: New to this - Flavivs Aetivs - 07-14-2016

It is true that the Indian stuff is pressed steel plate. We've tried to heat-treat/etc. it before over here in the U.S. and it falls apart when you do.

When it comes to affordability, Segmentata is very easy to make on your own, you just gotta buy the brass fittings.

RE: New to this - Damianus Albus - 07-14-2016

(07-14-2016, 03:03 PM)brennivs - tony drake Wrote: I agree with Fabricivs  use the Forum read and ask questions Smile  I am sorry to say Damian through out Roman Millitary history the Roman army had also poorly made equipment which only private purchase could improve, you have to look at all finds from all periods to give a balanced view of the quality of equipment, and as being Reanactors  we have the same choice as a Roman soldier to keep it simple or bling it up or both Cool
Regards Brennivs Big Grin

Well, of course that not every one could get high quality but I assure you, none roman soldier had pressed helmet or cut sword. And when you compare finds (at least from late empire period, but I belive same goes for Gallics) helmets which have 1600years still look way better than indian reconstruction of them Tongue

Your last senttence is great. To keep it simple. So don't order 350$ ugly Koblenz but order custom made, simple Augs, Worms or Christies Wink
Same applies to Gallic. Don't buy Gallic with ugly decorations. Order simple, hand-made and good looking one.

RE: New to this - brennivs - tony drake - 07-14-2016

I am sorry to say even Custom made items are too well made compared to the origonals. A lot of the (mass) manufactured flaws disappear and mistakes made by the armourer are removed. This is what I study, construction of equipment, the means to make it, the Fabrica layout, the mind set of the person making the item also the time and cost restraint plus many more avenues to go down. The easy bit is the making of the item Huh  once you have considered all aspects and also plenty of research of the item.
Items made by other companys  private or otherwise need a balanced approach, if you are happy then go with it even if you work at the cheap end of the scale it is still expensive but over time you can improve your kit if you feel the need. Happiness with what you do in reanacment is all that counts Smile
Regards Brennivs Big Grin

RE: New to this - Flavivs Aetivs - 07-14-2016

I'm afraid that I know how much a simple ridge helmet, like the Iatrus, Burgh Castle, or Augst helmet will cost from a custom armorer here in the U.S. and it will run you about 750 dollars.

And those are easy helmets made from sheet steel and sheet brass. A spun Gallic helmet will put you in the 1000+ dollar range.

RE: New to this - Damianus Albus - 07-14-2016

(07-14-2016, 03:52 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: I'm afraid that I know how much a simple ridge helmet, like the Iatrus, Burgh Castle, or Augst helmet will cost from a custom armorer here in the U.S. and it will run you about 750 dollars.

And those are easy helmets made from sheet steel and sheet brass. A spun Gallic helmet will put you in the 1000+ dollar range.

But what's the problem with ordering from Europe.

Christies from Pustelak brothers was around 400-450euro 2-3 months ago + shipping.

It's XXI century. We don't stick just with out country.

And again. It's expensive hobby. If you can't afford something, you just get cheaper version or save money. That's the best solution.
___________________
@brennivs - tony drake
Not sure how it looks with Gallics but Late Empire period is full of well-made helmets, full of small details which after 1600years still look better than Indian helmets.

RE: New to this - Fabricius Carbo - 07-14-2016

I have a Deepeeka Gallic helmet purchased new a few weeks ago, it's one of their latest and it is well made, solid and of good materials. I paid under a hundred pounds for it including shipping from a place in Wales.
While I appreciate a custom made helmet may be of good quality and accuracy and probably worth the money I feel there is a touch of snobbery around.

RE: New to this - Damianus Albus - 07-14-2016

(07-14-2016, 04:47 PM)Fabricius Carbo Wrote: I have a Deepeeka Gallic helmet purchased new a few weeks ago, it's one of their latest and it is well made, solid and of good materials. I paid  under a hundred pounds for it including shipping from a place in Wales.
While I appreciate a custom made helmet may be of good quality and accuracy and probably worth the money  I feel there is a touch of snobbery around.

I would ask a simple question.

If you want to buy 50" TV, do you buy Sony for 1000$ or similar looking for 500$ but made by some weird, unknow firm?
I belive 905 of us would choose Sony/Samsung/whatever for the sake of quality and certainty it will work without any issues for years.
Or a smarphone. Do you choose 100$ unknown from aliexpress or 300$ made by a good brand?
If so, why don't people apply this to hobby and choose way worse stuff just becasue it's cheaper?


Difference between proper made helmet and indian one (no need to say more):
[Image: late-roman-berkasovo-helmet.jpg]

[Image: P1011472.jpg]

And this applies to everything, that's why I'm trying to keep people away from indian stuff so they won't waste money.

RE: New to this - Fabricius Carbo - 07-14-2016

I have a JVC television it's spec matches much more expensive Sony models . My phone is a Cubot, it cost £120. It's spec matches a high end Samsung.
Before I buy I check specifications and reviews of the things I intend to buy.
I don't mind paying for handmade or custom items where they are the best solution. I have handmade shoes by Loake, Church's and Grenson. I wear Coles shirts. I also have cheap Clarkes shoes and Marks & Spencers suits for work. I buy jeans and T shirts from Matalan.
Horses for Courses.
There is space for it all.
Your example helmet is one item and hardly a 'standard' piece of kit.

Rather than blanket condemn eveything from India why not evaluate the individual item you are interested in, have a look at it, get opinions, read reviews.
Which one of the two is Indian? both look cheap to me.

RE: New to this - Damianus Albus - 07-14-2016

Both look cheap? I belive you are trolling now... I don't belice that (not to mention whole ugly look) you don't see that on the upper one you can see huge spaces between each "S" while lower one has no spaces between decoration.

This is the find. Now compare which looks perfectly like find and which looks cheesy and cheap.

And take a look at the "greaves" topic when I posted typical indian greaves, find, and properly made ones.

[Image: 13680703_1218773741486656_54216233538996...e=57F37C20]

RE: New to this - Fabricius Carbo - 07-14-2016

Maybe it's just my taste but the original looks cheesy as well I am afraid.

RE: New to this - Damianus Albus - 07-14-2016

Taste is one thing but being unable to notice differences (which are huge) is pure trolling.

I don't like Gallics but I appreciate well-made ones with great decorations.

Well, I belive my helmet also looks cheesy Big Grin

[Image: 13265890_692224960919934_423056743672915...e=5834EB79]

[Image: 13335527_692224964253267_599386681040819...e=5835DBEB]

[Image: 13645106_709694092506354_808416093645991...e=5829477D]
Ok, maybe this will convince you about Gallics:

[Image: AH6053N_l.jpg]

And:

[Image: 12742431_462738210598684_127413305653642...e=57EFC5A1]