Show here your Roman soldier impression

[jvrjenivs]

Otherwise I like the impression and the location brings back memories too.

Thanks Graham. And indeed the MPO/BOM is a wonderfull site. Have nice memories to that location, too. Unfortunatelly they just closed their doors last month for the next 1.5 year to come

[Crispvs]

Graham,

I know I have shown you my late Roman tunic before, but would you care to comment on it in the light of the present discussion?
This picture has been posted up before but I do so again here. The photo was taken by Arthes during one of the RMRS 'Roman army through the ages' displays and it is with her permission that I use it on RAT.



Below is my tunic laid out flat. I took the dimensions from two tunics auctioned at Christies about seven years ago. One tunic was complete in the body but had lost its sleeves, although a small amount was left of each one. I modelled most of my tunic on this tunic. The other tunic I used had apparently been ripped or cut in half down the middle and so was just one half of a tunic with one complete sleeve still attached. The sleeves on both tunics would have been very tight fitting, as are mine. Please forgive the unfinished decoration when the photograph was taken.



Crispvs

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Paul

Thanks for showing the pictures again. The overall effect in my opinion looks wrong but as you have copied an exact tunic perhaps this requires some explanation. Compared to the loose and baggy early principate style later military tunics copying non Roman 'Barbarian' fashions were ironically more tailored and sophisticated. The most obvious addition was the inclusion of wrist length sleeves which Roman art invariably depict also had tight fitting cuffs. What you have appears to be a mixture of the early baggy look with the tight fitting sleeves and cuffs.

With the brief corpus of evidence that I have to hand, two types of late tunic appear to emerge, One is wide and has short stubby sleeves. The other is narrower with slightly longer sleeves. Based on observation of art I would suggest that the narrower type with the longer sleeves might be the style the military used. For instance compare your pose in the top picture to one of the figures in the Piazza Armerina mosaic with an outstretched arm. From your photo it would look like your tunic however is the other type. In which case that might even be a female garment.

However as I said earlier greater study needs to be carried out as to whom might have worn what and the information made readily available. I believe even something along these lines may already be in progress.

Not sure if this helps you but I feel it all adds to our knowledge.

Graham.

[Caballo]

Hi,

Thought it might be useful (with some trepidation) to put up a pic of the late Roman tunic from Christian laid out in the same way for Grahams and other feedback (gulp).


It IS very long, and even on a 6ft 3 bloke like me, I will have to put in a tuck at the waist (I got the XL version). But the work is superb (I think)

And my earlier wool one. I tried to model the shape of the clavii on the Kerch missorium, though the tapestry made griffin design (off ebay) is probably more 5th century than fourth. But I'm still very much learning here- the world of Late Roman tunics is complex......


As worn on the Comitatus Wall Walk



Cheers

Caballo

[Cheyenne]

I must admit that the most consistent cut of the tunic I have come accross from my own studies at both the V&A and the Bolton museum, I would say that the shape that comes up most often is that which Paul has very nicely represented in his 'timeline' picture. I surveyed and measured 10 diferent complete tunics and 6 of them had this type of cut. They were, however also the most elobarately embellished. So maybe we are seeing a specific style of tunic for a specific status of individual

Cheers

Claire

[Graham Sumner]

So maybe we are seeing a specific style of tunic for a specific status of individual

That is in all probability the case.

Paul's tunic is obviously not wrong but in my opinion does not look like the type of tunic shown worn by soldiers. Caballo's on the other hand looks a lot better and has the narrower shape with the longer sleeves.

Do not worry about tucks Caballo, they are a feature of many surviving tunics. One late Roman writer even wondered why tunics were made so long in the first place!

Graham.

[John Conyard]

I’ve just picked up on this discussion, and am probably coming late to the feast.

I suspect I’ll be seeing a lot of the new tunics sold by Christian over the next few years. It will be like the probable soldiers wearing matching tunics on the Piazza Armarina mosaics. But I have only seen pictures of the tunics. I like the decoration and it seems to be in wool. What is the tunic material? It looks like it may be linen.

If people find the tunics too long I would be tempted to use the decoration on a new wool tunic with tighter sleeves.

[Caballo]

One late Roman writer even wondered why tunics were made so long in the first place!

Graham- thanks- which writer was this? I'd like to track down the quote? I must have missed this in your book? :oops:

John- the tunic is linen with wool decoration. One for the sunny days- I'll wear wool on colder ones!

Cheers

Caballo

[Graham Sumner]

Graham- thanks- which writer was this? I'd like to track down the quote? I must have missed this in your book?

Tertullian. De Pallio V.

Page 29 'Roman Military Dress'.

Graham.

[Rhun]

Hi.
Just thought I would post these pictures of my kit.
Cheers,
Rhun (David Castriota)

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[M. Demetrius]

Nice! With what are your lamellar plates laced?

[John Conyard]

Excellent helmet, head and shoulders above the rest!

[M. Demetrius]

:wink:

head and shoulders above

Yeah, helmets are like that. Heh. :roll: :lol: Well said.

[Rhun]

Thanks for your feedback, John and David.

The lamellar cuirass was made from plates I obtained from White Mountain Armoury in New Hampshire. I designed the set up which is assembled with straps and buckles. I laced it together with Indian cowhide which is round in section. It stretches over time and requires tightening after a while, but it is very strong and flexible.

All the best,
David

[Chlodovicus]

David,

Great looking impression! Your soldier must be well off to afford an elaborate helmet and additional armor from his "allowances." Plunder, maybe?