My Impression

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Bit like me then :roll:

[Paullus Scipio]

With all due respect to Hibernicus, from everything we know about the Roman Army of the first C AD....full-time professional soldiers who spent most of their time in 'peace' conditions ( i.e. a lot of time on their hands), tough and professional NCO's, a long and proud tradition, 'esprit de corps' etc I expect that your version of a legionary is closer to the reality then Hibernicus' D .......something tells me there was plenty of 'spit and polish' about the Legions......just look at the pride that when went into their exceptionally decorated gear, much of which even now, is described as 'parade' gear....... 8) 8)

[Gaius_Calvus]

As a serving Colonel of Infantry in the US Army, and having served in elite units like the 82nd Airborne Division, I can tell you that good Soldiers and professional units are good at everything, not just fighting.

I have spent days, weeks, and months, in mud, snow, and rain (to include an absolutely miserable May-June of 1984 in Otterburn, not far from Hadrian's wall) -- but we were expected to keep our equipment as absolutely clean as possible in order to keep it in good working order. A weapon full of mud, or rusty, is no good to anyone -- and a dirty Soldier, unshaven and filthy, is more apt to get sick.

The Romans were professionals, and I believe that they dealt with bad conditions as other professional Armies do -- by keeping themselves and their equipment as clean as possible. Hence -- why did their forts, even as small as those on Hadrian's wall, have stone latrines and baths? They encamped "Sub pellibus" every night -- and maintenance of person and equipment was certainly not impossible, rather it would have been expected.

So, I don't think your impression is too shiny at all. It shows a professional Soldier as one would have expected him to appear.

Vale,

Edge

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Bit like me then :roll:

No, Byron, the difference between you two is 10 posts in 2.5 years and 5,137 in less than 2 :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I tend to agree with that assessment Caius.
It's fine to say they would be grubby and rusty after weeks on the fronttier, but the image of the Roman army was important......Gleaming kit will inspire awe, envy, or even, perhaps quite important, derision from a less advanced army....
But keping a sword free of rust, as well as armour etc must have been as important then as later periods. True after an engagement, things might look like that......mud blood guts.........but on duty in camp, or heading out
on patrol, or for a battle, you will be looking your best to impress, or intimidate etc......I feel.

I am at odds with some people on that tho' :lol:

[Julius Verax]

Hi All , I do think that even on the frontier soldiers would have been expected to look after there kit but wear and tear would be a factor . I have spent many a time in harsh conditions at home and on operations overseas and you allways keep your kit in good condition to prevent failure Plus a professional soldier prides himself on his kit and I think the Roman Legionary must have been the same .

Julius . :wink:

[Hibernicus]

A gentle reminder that I started my post to Julius with "tongue in cheek".

I have no quarrel with Julius' impression. I am sure it fits within his needs and interpretation.

And we all know men who've served their countries in the military that can relate stories about "spit and polish" as well as times when "spit and polish" was set aside. The men in Hispana who've served and the several who continue to serve...Viet Nam through current deployment... all tell stories of deliberate dirtying of gear and appearance...

So, Roman soldiers all "spit and polish" all the time over a 2000 year period under a variety of circumstances? .. I disagree. At times? Absolutely! Most of the time? Sure, I can go along with that.

However, be that as it may.... you ALL may be very well assured that when we march back to Eburacum after we complete those two stone bridges, 60 miles of road, find that new source of tin and take that oppidium from those Caledonii that have been harassing us we'll put a real shine on the kit.

While in camp my men are not scheduled with time to polish buckles. If the blade on their pala or points on their dolabra are not properly keen then they'll have hell to pay! Besides, the women they've brought along can clean the day's grime and mud off of their armor, after they do the men's laundry. Besides, Gaius was the one who mis-used his dolabra and snapped the handle during today's work. He'll be cleaning segs tonight along with his contubernales. Team spirit!

[Paullus Scipio]

Sure, Sean - we all read that, but it did open a nice juicy topic of 'clean' v. 'dirty/ragged' that was to..oo..oo tempting :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I would go along with the 'some of the time, most of the time but not ALL of the time' assessment! :twisted:

[Julius Verax]

Ive enjoyed reading all the posts on this topic and yes it was tongue & cheek and I never thought otherwise - good discussion .


Julius .

[Lochinvar]

Hey Paul, I sense a dichotomy....'Parachute Regiment' and 'spit and polish'. So you weren't in 3 PARA mortars, or any other part of 'Gungy Three' for that matter? Must've been 'Shiny One'?

Anyway, welcome back.

[Julius Verax]

I was pathfinder platoon , 2 Para . We have been known to get a bit on the dirty side .

[Lochinvar]

I've pm'd you

[Mithras]

I agree to a point. But the further out from training exercises and garrisons and basecamp the troops are, the less that imperative becomes. My books are packed with innumerable photos of soldiers on campaign over the last hundred years that do not follow your clean image. It is an officer's concern, and rightfully so. Men in the field may need that motivation, remember the problems the US Army had in the mid-60s with the M-16 in Vietnam, it was a cleaning problem, keeping the gun clean enough caused alot of problems.

I've got many pictures from that war showing fighting soldiers in all kinds of war-torn beat-up, dirty and unclean situations.

As a serving Colonel of Infantry in the US Army... I have spent days, weeks, and months, in mud, snow, and rain (to include an absolutely miserable May-June of 1984 in Otterburn, not far from Hadrian's wall) -- but we were expected to keep our equipment as absolutely clean as possible in order to keep it in good working order. A weapon full of mud, or rusty, is no good to anyone -- and a dirty Soldier, unshaven and filthy, is more apt to get sick.

Edge

[Julius Verax]

Dont get me wrong , Ive been in prolonged combat situations and yes you are not so pristine but you always try to keep your kit as clean as possible to prevent failurewhich could save your life , any soldier from any country should agree BUT I do think that Soldiers from antiquity esspecially right on the frontier would show wear and tear over long periods of time in the field maybe on the spot repairs for example , but this is just my opinion ( Iam probably wrong ) .


Julius .