Handmade Baldric Suggestions

[rszebras]

Randy, yeah, I taper the leather where it has to feed through the suspension loops...cut divets out of the leather strap on each side of it...Ahem, kind of the shape of a maxi-pad. With the wide ends continuing on as part of the strap, except for one end which will be short. That short end I sew to the longer part as it wraps around the suspension loop.

If that makes no sense (and it may not since it's 4:35 am and it's been a looooong night), I'll take a picture of mine and show ya.

Yeah, I think it makes sense about the taper from wide to narrow and back to wide so it's narrow right where it goes around the suspension ring. Actually, that's a really good idea I hadn't thought of. What width do you use for the baldric?

As you can see from my previous post, the baldric that came with the sword is quite narrow so no narrowing of the width at the suspension rings was necessary. http://www.larp.com/legioxx/sdk1171a.jpg Anyway, a photo of yours might still be helpful.

There is a lot of discussion as to the height of the scabbard in relation to the balteus and the correct use of the four suspension rings. I was planning to do like I see a lot of reenactors do: have the baldric go under the belt to keep the scabbard from moving when drawing the sword, and use the top ring in the front and both rings in the back.

I noticed that the baldric that came with the sword is designed so the sword hangs in a vertical position. I also noticed that by shortening the rear bottom leather strap a little would result in the scabbard tilting forward. Depending on the length of that strap the forward tilt could be adjusted. I plan on adjusting the rear bottom strap so the scabbard tilts forward 30 degrees or so. Again, I've seen some reenactors with the sword tilting forward and some with it hanging vertically. It seems to me that it's easier to draw the sword when the handle is not under the armpit but tilted forward. Anyway, that's my plan.

Randy Sampson

[Magnus]

Hey Randy, I have one more nightshift to finish off tonight, then I'll post a pic of my baldric and how it attaches. But you're definately on the right track..

[Crispvs]

1st century AD Roman sculptures generally (although not consistently) show the sword hanging vertically. They also show the sword worn high so that the sword pommel is close to the armpit. They also show NO evidence for any sort of buckle or clasp connecting a two part baldric and I know of not a single example which shows the baldric passing under a waistbelt. Since noticing these things I have shortened my own baldric so that the sword pommel hangs nearer to the armpit and have stopped using my belt to secure the sword in place (in any case it now hangs too high for this to be possible). This is how I have been wearing my sword for the last two seasons and once I got used to it I have not found any inconvenient at all. It is true that the sword swings a bit but as the baldric is shorter this is not particularly significant. The Romans do not seem to have felt the need to belt their baldrics and I no longer do either. One thing I have noticed is that the leather on the upper part of the back of the scabbard has become quite worn from rubbing against my armour and this may help to explain why some known Roman locket assemblages include a plate of uncertain purpose on the back which does not appear to have a constructional function.

Crispvs

[rszebras]

1st century AD Roman sculptures generally (although not consistently) show the sword hanging vertically. They also show the sword worn high so that the sword pommel is close to the armpit. They also show NO evidence for any sort of buckle or clasp connecting a two part baldric and I know of not a single example which shows the baldric passing under a waistbelt. Since noticing these things I have shortened my own baldric so that the sword pommel hangs nearer to the armpit and have stopped using my belt to secure the sword in place (in any case it now hangs too high for this to be possible).
Crispvs

Thanks for the input, Crispvs. Using the baldric that came with the sword results in the pommel being close to the armpit. In fact, the pommel sometimes catches on the front shoulder plates. Not sure if this is because the inexpensive deepeeka lorica segmantata has plates that are too long or the sword is too high. Nevertheless, I want the sword to hang at least a tad lower. But now I'm debating with myself if I should make it so low that it goes inside the belt or just an inch or two lower and let it hang vertically.

Replacing the baldric, however, will eliminate the buckle that connects the two parts, since I will make a one piece baldric. It seems there is significant consensus that a one piece baldric is amply attested to by the evidence.

Randy

[M. Demetrius]

Be advised, if you use a non-adjustable strap, that the rig will hang significantly lower if ever you wear just a tunic, and not your armor. Depending on the thickness of your armor shoulder plates and whatever subarmalis you wear, it could be as much as a couple of inches.

Just a thought. A neat little buckle wouldn't be so bad, would it? We don't see them on the front on grave stele, but that doesn't mean they weren't on the back, does it?

[Magnus]

Know what's wierd Dave? I've never had to adjust mine...and I made mine adjustable via a rivet and some holes. I can't figure out why either lol.

[M. Demetrius]

Do you wear a shoulder-padded subarmalis?

[Magnus]

Yeah...and on top of that is the armour, which makes it sit higher and the added size of the girdle plates when the baldric goes around part of me.

So I dunno...maybe I just adjust to how it sits when I'm just wearing a tunic.

[Ebusitanus]

The more I use the double cingulum style with the gladius attached to them directly the more confusing all this gets. Without attaching the weighted down cingulum to the hamata by any means the more it ends up slipping downwards and streching more and more the leather.
A free high hanging baldric is nice and helps also against the downward motion through the cingulum but makes the angling of the blade forward impossible.

Arghhh

[M. Demetrius]

A free high hanging baldric is nice and helps also against the downward motion through the cingulum but makes the angling of the blade forward impossible.

If you make the rear strap a little shorter than the front, it will automatically angle the gladius forward. It shouldn't take a lot of difference...experiment until you get the angle you prefer, although there seems to be a good case presentable that the gladius simply hung straight down, rather than angled like many of us do.

[Ebusitanus]

For those who have tried the "free hanging" method, without the belt holding it in place, how does the drawing of the sword work out?
In regards to the shorter rear strap on the baldric. If we use Jorge´s idea here shown by Tarbicus, how can you make a rear strap shorter?

You should check out Jorge's idea for attaching the baldric to the gladius:
http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?ma ... cts_id=474

Pretty ingenious as far as I'm concerned, and pretty viable.

[M. Demetrius]

"shortening the rear strap" as I suggested works only with the system using a two point suspension on the lower rings, and one point on the upper. Using the split strap method, you can control the angle of the gladius, regardless of whether ties, buckles or hooks are used to go through the rings.

Using only two points to suspend the gladius basically precludes that idea, unless you physically adjust the two straps, and secure them to the body, probably by passing the baldric under the belt. Some don't think this was done, others have found that simple technique keeps the sword right where it is supposed to be, regardless of body angle or other activity. I personally favor the latter, with the 3 point suspension strap, back lower strap about 1/2" shorter than the front.

[Crispvs]

I find no problem at all with drawing my sword from a 'free hanging' scabbard and rarely have any trouble replacing it back into the scabbard with ease.

To all those who are seeking to angle their scabbards forward slightly, do you have evidence to support this. I can't think of much and I find no problem at all with it hanging vertically.

Regarding stretched belts, it seems to have been common practice to stict along the edges. this would have helped prevent stretching.

Crispvs

[M. Demetrius]

If it's soft leather, like goat in two layers, stitching will greatly reduce the stretch, as long as the stitches are moderately tight. For the basic veg tanned belt blank, it shouldn't be needful to reinforce.

My scabbard grips the blade a little. My thinking is that it should not, but I've not rebuild the throat of it. If the blade grips, there needs to be some way of removing the sword other than using a second hand. That's why I put the baldric under the belt. Works for me. I'd say the scabbard angles forward about 5 or 10 degrees.

I said earlier the gravestones tend to show the gladius hanging straight down, so we are in agreement there.

[A_Volpe]

Oooh, hooks! Interesting idea for the baldric, and also with feeding the straps through the upper rings on the scabbard, neat!

But, I do have to throw this in - Just because sculptures don't show a buckle in the front does not nessesarily mean there wasn't a buckle in the back, where most of us have that Y shaped / forked rear strap. Not all of the sculptures are in the round, and if they were, I don't recall knowing many that were detailed in the back, if they were mounted next to a wall or some such ~ esspecially tombstone portraits.

Now, granted, my baldric has the buckle in the front, but I'm OK with that. Doesn't mean I'm wrong, but doesn't mean I'm right either...I can accept that.

but, this hook and threaded technique is really interesting, and makes use of the "4th ring", so, something for me to try!

As for having a baldric that can be swapped out to more than one Gladius - an alternative is to punch 4 holes, 2 on the end of the strap, and 2 a little further up, and then just take a leather [or linen thread?] and tie the strap looped around the ring. Then when you want to swap out, just untie those straps. Easy enough! But as I said, that's another idea.