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<br>
Too bad for the skorpio! Promote, I guess that if you had the skorpio aboard, the TV director could risk a heavy arrow somewhere in his a*s!<br>
<br>
Ah, the Regensburg legion! Severian period? I'd like to see how you will be equipped, especially your centurion. Will you share with us your photos?<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Titus <p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini
... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...
Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
![[Image: PRIMANI_ban2.gif]](http://web.tiscali.it/iulianevivas/PRIMANI_ban2.gif)
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Titus, Robert has summarized it quite right<br>
I'll just add that if we look at the soldiers of the Cohors Palmirenorum depicted at the mid-third century Dura fresco, their attire is basically what we would call late Roman: long trousers, long sleeved tunics with tapestry patches, broad belts and spathae. The patches on the tunics are still very small and the round and square conspicuous patches of the fourth and fifth/ sixth centuries are still absent. The belts are clearly of third century type and those belts with 'propeller' stiffeners come only from late Constantinian times, the broad chip-carved fittings, from Valentinianian times on. Some of the soldiers at Dura already fastened their cloaks with early, flimsy cruciform brooches of the same kind that would be characteristic of Roman public servants during the following centuries. Third century baldrics seem to be broader than their later counterparts and their fittings, of a kind that doesn't continue during next century, but baldrics continued in use, and the same for the swords and their scabbard fittings. The hobnailed boots are higher than the later military footwear. From the end of third century on, low footwear seems to come on fashion, the same for flimsy cavalry/officer's campagi than for sturdy 'infantry' hobnailed shoes.<br>
The pilleus cap appears depicted for the first time during the Tetrarchic period and I would dare to say that it disappears during the early fifth century.<br>
The helmets maybe Robert is right about the ridge helmet. We can see spangenhelme on Galerius' arch and perhaps the two undated palin iron spangenhelme from Egypt come form that period...<br>
What is clear is that Roman solidiers didn't throw away the 'old' equipment just to get the new one and that some long lasting items like helmets, mailshirts or swords kept surely hanging around for a time.<br>
<br>
Flavius,<br>
I have to tell you in the first time that you've done an excellent work and that I'm delighted with your boat (Ah, I'd wish I'd have it moored on our river... )<br>
Archers would probably offer a better cadence of fire than as ingle catapult on the forecalstle (longer range but only one bolt a time and more spaced...)<br>
You can use linen clothes for the summer, it is not forbidden by military regulations!<br>
In any case, rowers would dress mailshirts if things were so 'rude' as to ask for wearing helmets, that's my opinion. Sailors at Piazza Armerina are totally unarmoured and we must cast aside that old cliche of the unarmoured (or only helmeted) late soldiers.<br>
It would be LOVELY to have some filmed footage of one of your displays!<br>
Keep on rowing!<br>
<br>
Aitor<br>
<p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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<br>
"Late" thanks for the further details Aitor! <br>
<br>
Do you guys think that if, in the fourth quarter of the third century and in the following years, the start of the use of the "new" equipment could be deducted by seeing what legions were annihilated in battle or suffered heavy losses? Any evidence of loss of equipment and the following re-equipping, in that period, could mean the "change of fashion" beginning. It's just a hypothesys, but could help.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Titus <p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini
... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...
Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
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Titus,<br>
As Aitor has rightly remarked, equipment was never thrown away because it was 'out of fashion'. But yes, heavy losses in equipment are very much thought of as the reason to produce new-style, cheaper, equipment in state-owned factories.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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Flavius,<br>
What a fascinating project! What will happen to this ship? Will it go to a museum or will you get to row in it a bit more?<br>
Do you have a website for the group? How is your group organised - are you a bunch of enthusiasts, or a group of archaeologists like Aitor's?<br>
<br>
When will the footage of your heroic rowing experience be shown? Is it for a tv show or a documentary?<br>
<br>
Is there any chance that Regensburg would be interested in organising a Late Roman event for next year? Any event around the ship, with hopefully many members from Late Roman groups present, would I think attract a lot of visitors.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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<br>
Sure, I did'nt mean "out of fashion" like a Tom Ford's (Gucci and Y.S. Laurent) last Fall/Winter 2004-2005 "haute couture" collection...<br>
<br>
I meant that also a natural consuming of the equipment of a legion (added to the battles losses) had to be replaced with the cheaper new one. For example, if we knew when the last high quality helmets fabrica stopped the last production of the one sheet of metal imperials, those helmets could be used at least for about a century (if well repaired and maintained ), maybe much more, since a legionary soldier fought rarely in his career.<br>
If I remind, the imperial helmets fabricae did not work always for the military equipment, rather worked on it by isolated orders from the legions and filled the remaining time making civil objects. So from the making of the last imperial to the making of the first two halved, could be a very big gap. That could explain the artisans' loss of right skills in the long meanwhile.<br>
<br>
The lacking of frequent military orders for a long time could cause the stop of the masters smiths' school to the young generations. I know that in any period of the Empire were common a medium-high quality mass production, but for the imperial helmets could be different, the smiths had to be very skilled to get good helmets of the same shapes, quickly.<br>
<br>
I guess that the legions chose the factories to give their orders, on a costs basis and best price offers, as, when there is not corruption, happens today. So a quick production made the difference, as always. That could cause the parallel use of new and old equipment in the same legion and in the same battle.<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Titus<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini
... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...
Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
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I have not very much time since today, since we want to fix the sail to our boat, a few ring buckle belts have to be made, an archaeologist and her family has to be picked up at the station, all kinds of preparations...<br>
<br>
The ship was produced mainly by students, but we also have two professional boat-builders in our crew (although the students did a fine job, we would not have been able to complete the boat on our own). The entire project was put through by the Regensburg university under the guidance of Dr. Konen (expert on classis Germanica) and Prof. Schäfer (expert on late Roman history) with the a lot of support by Dr. Höckmann (the archaeologist who made detailed plans of the Mainz wrecks in the 1980s.<br>
<br>
The ship is NOT going to a museum, we plan to use it regularly and show it to the public LIFE (there is even a plan to let school classes row it, under the eyes of a few well trained people, of course).<br>
<br>
A late Roman event next year ? Why not ? I have to ask Dr. Konen, but it should be possible (and I like the idea very much, so I will do what I can).<br>
<br>
Roman equipment change: yes, I also think of major losses of men and equipment to have facilitated a lot of changes (the word 'improvement' would not be well placed - "Ersatz" may be good but is still "Ersatz"). I would say a good 'candidate' would be the mid 3rd century, especially the horrific losses when Decius was killed together with a large part of the Danube armies and his successor let the goths get away with all of their booty...<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Flauis <p></p><i></i>
Florian Himmler (not related!)
would be cool, if others had a Nydam-style Germanic boat to "fight" against the Regina - that could be the next Olympic competition<br>
<br>
Anything new about TV-coverage?<br>
<br>
Ram-speed ahead!<br>
<p></p><i></i>
I read the BFS (Bayerisches Fernsehen) will show somehing about the ship in the show "Zwischen Schwaben und Altbayern" (Kriegsschiff auf der Donau<br>
Schiffstaufe für die Römergaleere) at 6.05 pm on sunday. <p></p><i></i>
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Could you or someone else tape this and whack it on a dvd?<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius /Robert <p></p><i></i>
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Oh yes, and translate it to English (I wouldn't complain in case it were to Spanish...)<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Aitor.....I'd have to say DITTO on that. <p></p><i></i>
aka: Julio Peña
Quote:"audaces Fortuna iuvat"
- shouted by Turnus in Virgil\'s Aeneid in book X just before he is utterly destroyed by Aeneas\' Trojans.
I know it's emberrasing, but I still don't have a dvd-recorder yet. But I'm sure someone in Regensburg can do that job for you. <p></p><i></i>
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I hope more information (images and video sequences) will appear on the net, soon.<br>
<br>
On the whole it was a huge success. I almost melted during rowing with my Berkasovo helmet and a heavy woolen tunic (yes, linen would have been better, but we had to tackle the costs wherever possible), but we brought the ship to a nice speed - according to our boatswain we reached 5,1 knots, and the crew was not an experienced one (although the are no longer rookies, either. several weeks of training don't go by without any effect)<br>
"Regina" was even able to sail against the current. Even if you take into consideration that the wind came almost directly from behind and the current was weak it was nevertheless a very fascinating view (it made me especially happy, since I did the basic design of the rigg).<br>
<br>
I have to go to Kalkriese today, but perhaps I've got a little more time next week.<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Flauius <p></p><i></i>
Florian Himmler (not related!)
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A few pictures I came across on [url=http://www.coh-xxvi-vcr.de/2004/2004o8R.html" target="top]this website of the COH XXVI VCR[/url]:<br>
<img src="http://www.coh-xxvi-vcr.de/2004/Lusoria-1.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
Very, very nice.<br>
I loved this one though - the sail!<br>
<img src="http://www.coh-xxvi-vcr.de/2004/Lusoria-7.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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