Handmade Baldric Suggestions

[Crispvs]

Regarding buckles, actually it must be said that there is actually a small amount of evidence for the use of buckles with swords, although nothing to tie this into baldrics. The Delos sword was apparantly attached to a belt by two buckles (a small buckle was found next to each of its two suspension rings). A Mainz type sword from Vindonissa, buried with a military belt was associated with the remains of a small buckle, which may have been used to attach it to the belt somehow (a small strap which passes through the suspension rings and which is then secured with the buckle is the usual suggestion). The Herculanium soldier had a military belt wrapped around his sword which it seems to have been attached to. A small buckle was found adhering about halfway down the scabbard which may or may not have been associated with the scabbard originally.

That constitutes all of the evidence I known of for buckles which are associated with swords and each seems to be associated with a waist belt rather than a baldric. That said however, given that some baldrics dipicted in sculpture are shown as being extremely short a buckle does make some sense which considering the issue of putting a tight baldric over armour. However, if this were the case, the buckle would need to be so close to the scabbard that it was more or less hidden by the suspension rings, given that fastenings do not appear to be shown on reliefs. Paint is of course a possibility but given that so much other fine detail has been carved into some of these stones, the possibily of otherwise invisible details added in paint seems so much less likely.
The idea of a baldric fastening on the back is interesting but I think it would have been important for a soldier to be able to take of his own equipment if necessary and I don't think that would be nearly as easy if he had to undo a fastening on his back.

Crispvs

[Tim Edwards]

While you're making your baldric - why not add studs to it?

It may seem a bit 'spartacus' but there is good evidence for it.

We can see a studded baldric on the tombstone of C Castricius Victor:

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/

And also on the Chatsworth House relief, and some of the Fayum paintings, see attached...

Alternate gold/silver studs are particularly dapper!

[Marcus Mummius]

My baldric:

[rszebras]

While you're making your baldric - why not add studs to it?

It may seem a bit 'spartacus' but there is good evidence for it.

Thanks for the suggestions on adding studs to the baldric. Since this is my first attempt at making something even as simple as a baldric, I think I'll try it without studs -- at least for now. I appreciate everyone's feedback on the historical evidence for the placement and style of the baldric. That has proved extremely enlightening. I am now debating between the two options: have the baldric long enough to go beneath the balteus so the belt holds the sword in place, or have the baldric a little shorter so the pommel is close to the armpit (and the baldric would not be held in place by the balteus).

Thanks for your photo, Jef. The studs complement those on the cingulum. I noticed that your balteus appears to sit above the lowest tie hooks on the lorica segmentata. Is that correct? If the balteus were lower, say beneath the lowest tie hooks, then the baldric would have to be longer in order to go under the balteus. The positioning seems to be a good idea.

Randy Sampson

[Marcus Mummius]

My baldric is a bit long IMO. It could be about 5cm shorter and still pas under the balteus.

Most pictoral evidence does indeed show a free hanging baldric.

Whatever you do, don't make the baldric too long. Make sure the gladius is close to your body. I marched behind a guy in the testudo in Marle this year and he had a very long balteus. His gladius scabbard was very low and angled. Being very close together in the testudo meant that his angled, low hanging and swinging gladius scabbard got between my legs and seriously hindered me. I had to be very careful not to stumble. We formed a Testudo 5 times I believe and every time his scabbard was flapping between my legs. So it wasn't a chance occurence!

Vale,

[rszebras]

Yes, I can see how a long baldric would hinder your movements in the testudo, Jef. But it looks like your baldric is appropriately placed, and that's what I was looking at. Was I correct in my assumption that your balteus is above the lowest tie hooks on your lorica segmentata?

Randy Sampson

[Crispvs]

I will try to get someone to take a photo of how my sword hangs this weekend.

Crispvs

[Marcus Mummius]

The balteus is indeed in that position. Some like to wear it lower, but I like this position. And until now I never had to use some kind of extra ties or hooks to keep the balteus up. This is probably also due to the fact that the seg was made to my size.

[Magnus]

I find no problem at all with drawing my sword from a 'free hanging' scabbard and rarely have any trouble replacing it back into the scabbard with ease.

To all those who are seeking to angle their scabbards forward slightly, do you have evidence to support this. I can't think of much and I find no problem at all with it hanging vertically.

Crispvs

Is that something we really need evidence for? That to me is simply a personal preference and shouldn't harm a person's overall impression. Especially for a shallow angle of 10-20 degrees. I wear my pugio at an angle, and it greatly facilitates the drawing of it, given it's position on my seggie.

[rszebras]

Thanks for the additional photo, Jef. It gives me ideas.

Randy Sampson

[Crispvs]

Aha, of course, Magnus you already know my position on the angling of pugio sheaths and the fact the there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that the lower suspension rings on dagger sheaths were ever actually used (the evidence, in fact rather strongly points to them not being used), but anyway, this OT. We are supposed to be talking about baldrics. One thing I would always say though is that you should always try as far as possible to base what you do on the evidence as it has survived. If you then find that the way suggested by the evidence does not work then that is the time to start experimenting. Always start with the evidence though and work out from there.

Crispvs

[Magnus]

Here's a pic of how i've attached mine. I just used rivets and some holes...excuse the crumby scabbard...I made that a loooong time ago, and Matt Lukes is hopefully going to replace it for me this winter. Oh, and the top part shows where I made it adjustable...punched a few holes and I can move the rivet in and out of whichever hole I want. Same function as a buckle would have.

PS - love your shield pattern Jef. 8)

[Magnus]

Aha, of course, Magnus you already know my position on the angling of pugio sheaths and the fact the there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that the lower suspension rings on dagger sheaths were ever actually used (the evidence, in fact rather strongly points to them not being used), but anyway, this OT. We are supposed to be talking about baldrics. One thing I would always say though is that you should always try as far as possible to base what you do on the evidence as it has survived. If you then find that the way suggested by the evidence does not work then that is the time to start experimenting. Always start with the evidence though and work out from there.

Crispvs

No doubt...but this to me is like discussing how a cloak is worn, and stating it can only be worn how it is shown in sculpture.

[rszebras]

One thing I would always say though is that you should always try as far as possible to base what you do on the evidence as it has survived. If you then find that the way suggested by the evidence does not work then that is the time to start experimenting. Always start with the evidence though and work out from there.

This sounds like a reasonable proposition to me if one's goal is to be as historically accurate as possible.

And, Magnus, thanks very much for posting photos of your baldric. I like the idea of using rivets. It seems quite utilitarian. However, I think I will resort to stitching at this time. I'll post pics when I finish. Hopefully, no one will chuckle. :lol:

Randy Sampson

[Crispvs]

Good point Matt but still I prefer to see if it can be done the way it is shown before I start to look for alternatives. Unlike the wear patterns found on dagger suspension rings, we have nothing to give us archological support for bladric styles, so we are left to make up our own minds but as I said, always start with the evidence and work out from there.

Crispvs