What are the average dimensions of the pilum?

[Latinitas]

Hello,

I would like to make a Roman spear, called a ‘pilum’. At the internet I can’t find enough information about the dimension of the average pilum.

I have printed a photograph of the spear and I have added numbers. They indicate the part of the spear which dimension I need. There is only one problem. The ‘pilum’ has to be very authentic. So could you give me the dimensions in centimeters,
and also add how sure you are about it in your reply?

Thanks – magnas gratias tibi ago (in Latin)

http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 283ya8.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... 281fg5.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... 282mr8.jpg

[M. Demetrius]

I'm also interested in the slope of the pyramid, as I plan to make some steel collets for the end of the wood. I don't have any dimensions of the square cross section of the wood at either end of the pyramid, or the length of the truncated pyramidal block.

I'm sort of leaning toward 1 1/2" down to 3/4" or 7/8" over about 6" of run, unless I can find out something better. I have a plan to make a batch of collets in one sitting, then match the wood pyramids to that in another installment. The shape of the tang also should match the pyramid pretty closely, but that's less crucial.

Should the collet be pinged with a punch on one or both flat wood sides, to help it stay in place? I don't see the rivets going through there on any of the commercial pila so far. What makes it stay on, then, considering it will get plenty of impact/inertial stress to slide up the metal tip? Does anyone have an explanation for the "castellation" at the distal end corners that some collets have?

[Robert]

Salve Niels,

One of the best places to go for info like this is the site of Legio XX, they have a lot of info on making your own things. An inch is 2.6 centimeters, so you can work out the measurements. There is no such thing as the "perfect pilum", there a quite some variations in the ones found, often in lenght of the metal shaft. Are you going to forge it?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/pilum.html

This link will take you straight to the website, it is VERY informative!

Another tip, hop over to a good toolshop (gereedschapswinkel) and get a folding ruler (duimstok) showing centimeters on one side and inches on the other. When making things, most helpfull, as a lot of good info is not in metric.

Good luck, have fun!

[M. Demetrius]

And there, on a page I've probably looked at ten times or more are the answers to most of the questions above. :oops:

But those castellations, were they just decoration? Or should one go to the trouble of grinding them out of the collet?

[Marcus Mummius]

David, I remember a thread discussing the peculiar shaped corners of some collettes here on RAT. I don't know what the title of the thread was though. But at the end of the discussion no consensus was reached, so I guess it's one of those enigmatic things Roman military equipment is riddled with...

Vale,

[Latinitas]

Thanks for your reactions.
I have watched your site Robert. Now I know the dimension of the numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Only number 1 is unknown, So could anyone tell me the dimension of number one in the picture? It is the iron point below the wooden shaft. Thanks for so far.

Also I have to know either the Iron shaft was made of one piece or perhaps more. This is important by forging it.

Are you going to forge it?

Yes, I would like to make my own equipment. This is my first project, so I don`t know the tricks of the trade. After the pilum perhaps I will make the cingulum and the gladius hispaniensis.

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks for your reactions.
I have watched your site Robert. Now I know the dimension of the numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Only number 1 is unknown, So could anyone tell me the dimension of number one in the picture? It is the iron point below the wooden shaft. Thanks for so far.

Also I have to know either the Iron shaft was made of one piece or perhaps more. This is important by forging it.

Are you going to forge it?

Yes, I would like to make my own equipment. This is my first project, so I don`t know the tricks of the trade. After the pilum perhaps I will make the cingulum and the gladius hispaniensis.

The butspike can be a wide variety of lengths. I'd say make it about 10-15cm long.

The iron shaft is forged out of one piece. But the collette that goes over the end of the wooden pyramidal block is a seperate piece. I don't see it in your drawing... It should really be present in your reconstruction.

Some very informative scale drawings of original pilum parts can be found here: http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-spear.html

Vale,

[Latinitas]

Okay, thanks, I have all the dimensions now .



This is the pilumhead. I have understanded that this part of the pilum is forget out of one piece. Is this correct?



In the circle the iron part (I think it is called collet by you) is NOT a piece of the pilum head as above?

What was the length of the collet from top to bottom?

[size=75:uzic26hu]I hope my English is correct[/size] :?

[Marcus Mummius]

Salve Niels,

Yes, the pilumhead in the first picture is made out of one part.

The circled part in the second picture is indeed the collette. For dimensions please look at the link I posted. There are drawings of original pieces with a scale. So you can use these for dimensions.

Vale,

[Latinitas]

From: http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-spear.html

So the point has not always the shape of a pyramid? He could also have a flat triangular shape. Is that correct?

I have calculated the dimension of the collette. He was about 3.3cm (or 1.3" long)



With a big black line I have selected a piece of the pilum called the handle. You can see it is wrapped with a string or something. Did a authentic pilum also have this and what is the dimension of it from the top side to the bottom side?

Thanks for so far

[Marcus Mummius]

Hi Niels,

The drawings you posted are not pilum components. The butspikes (or ferrules) could have belonged to a pilum though. Those heads are for arrows, spears javelins etc...

These are the pila heads:



Although this pilum has a flat arrowlike point:



You can wrap the handle of the pilum grip if you want. I do not think there is any evidence. We don't know if it was done, nor how it was done. But it helps ensuring a good grip and it looks nice. So, no hard rules on that one. From a practical view it's better to use some kind of string instead of leather as leather doens't absorb sweat as well.

Vale,

[Paullus Scipio]

Jef wrote:-

You can wrap the handle of the pilum grip if you want. I do not think there is any evidence.

...ah, but there is ! The pilum in the photo is closely modelled on that illustrated on the Palazzo della Cancellaria relief of Nerva's Praetorians, which shows the counterweight embossed with an Eagle as well as the binding....
BTW it also shows socks worn under caligae. Alas I can't find a detailed image on the web, but maybe someone else can ?

[Latinitas]

So the points in the rectangle below at the bottom are not a butspike :o (I believe that was the point below at the pilum and indicated with an 1 on my picture).

You help me very well, thanks for that

[Marcus Mummius]

So the points in the rectangle below at the bottom are not a butspike Surprised

Yes they are butspikes, except for nr. 17 and 18. Those are arrowheads I believe. Fot some reason they are pictured upside down. The others in the rectangle you drew are butspikes.

..ah, but there is ! The pilum in the photo is closely modelled on that illustrated on the Palazzo della Cancellaria relief of Nerva's Praetorians, which shows the counterweight embossed with an Eagle as well as the binding....
BTW it also shows socks worn under caligae.

Yes indeed, forgot about that one

I often wear udones in my caligae. I wouldn't have any toes left if I didn't. Winters in Northeren Gaul can be chilly

Vale,

[Marcus Mummius]

Here's a picture of the Cancellaria relief showing the wrapping on the wooden shaft:



And the full relief: http://www.thorsberg-miniatures.de/art_ ... -mil-4.jpg :



Can't see any udones though...

Vale,