01-19-2021, 05:35 PM
(01-18-2021, 10:26 PM)Mark Hygate Wrote: Being a reasonable javelin-thrower from my school days (6 years dedication!); the pictures said it all for me! Perhaps I'll get to read it sometime, but I suspect you've pretty much conclusively (more than) suggested that the Romans threw plumbata in almost exactly the same way that they threw pila for the previous 500+ years!
It could make you wonder why anyone ever thought it was any other way...... :-)
Experienced throwers certainly have an advantage.
No, a pilum is not thrown in exactly the same manner (I'd say you skip the two first positions as the plumbata (unlike the plum) is not pointed in the opposite direction first).
Why? Because apparently some people still throw them underarm for about 20+ meters further than mr Pruett.
(01-19-2021, 10:21 AM)Steve Kaye Wrote: On seeing plumbata I naturally want to hold the lead portion in the palm of my hand, with fingertips resting on it, to give it spin when thrown overhead.
I presureme that's because maybe you have seen modern darts?
(01-17-2021, 06:51 PM)Brucicus Wrote: I was looking at the plumbata from Schaan that Mr. Vermaat posted in November of 2019.
It certainly looks like a plumbata, but close examination of the barbed head seems to reveal an eagle's head engraved upon it. The lead seems better integrated into the iron shaft than any other similar find I've seen as well.
Without having any better evidence than Vermaat's photo, I strongly suspect that this particular plumbata is a decoration for a pole bearing some sort of standard. Perhaps this is from one of those legions who specialized in war darts. The downward turn of the point reduces the effectiveness of this dart in battle, and taking the time to carve an eagle into the dart strikes me as odd for a practical weapon. Of course, it could be the equivalent of writing messages to the enemy on artillery shells and bombs.
Scroll up and take a look for yourselves. Did I have too much breakfast wine and am now seeing things? Or do you think this might be something.
No, that would definately be the wine because I have looked at it up close and there is nothing resembling a 'carved eagle head'. Maybe you could draw what you see on the image? Otherwise it's much like the 200-plus plumbatae I have seen so far, nothing more. Plus so far all the archaeologists who've seen it agree with that.
(01-19-2021, 04:50 PM)Brucicus Wrote: Yes! It does make one wonder how anyone could claim that the Romans threw it underhand.
That's why my mind was blown when I learned that the underhand method was being espoused as the main delivery method. In actuality, throwing underhand would only occur if there was no other choice.
I hope my treatise is very convincing. Feedback indicates that it is. I have no one pushing back on my findings, so far. Those who advocated for the underhand method seem to have disappeared, which is a good sign for me but not so flattering for them.
I have read your paper (again) but I will not discuss it until you have removed from it the amateur ad hominem comments as well as my pictures, for which you have no permission to use them and which are used as a straw man argument.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)