Deepeeka Pugio rework

[ARudling]

Hi all,
Below is a picture of my reworked Deepeeka pugio & the new type B scabbard I made for it.
The blade has been slightly modified in shape & ground to a blunt point as we use these for combat.

[attachment=3:1hna9k5j]<!-- ia3 Pugio in Scabbard.JPG<!-- ia3 [/attachment:1hna9k5j]
[attachment=0:1hna9k5j]<!-- ia0 Pugio mod17.JPG<!-- ia0 [/attachment:1hna9k5j]

As you can see I made it with a plain brass cover & so far I cant decide whether to finish the hilt with a brass or steel wrap , any input welcomed !

I do remember Crispus mentioning brass type B scabbard plates with some etched lines, but I couldnt find any good pictures or drawings of them & hence didnt attempt any such work on mine.

The rivets are actually made from brass domes cut from a rivet & then soldered to a nice easy to rivet copper nail, filed to match & then tinned.

[attachment=1:1hna9k5j]<!-- ia1 Pugio mod20.JPG<!-- ia1 [/attachment:1hna9k5j]

Loops are made from brass bar stock, hammered flat ends curled around & fitted to a small brass plate (soldered closed due to paranoia)

[attachment=2:1hna9k5j]<!-- ia2 scabbard loop small 3.JPG<!-- ia2 [/attachment:1hna9k5j]

Hope you all like it !

[M. Demetrius]

I'm no pugio expert, but it looks like very good handicraft to me. And delightfully not "factory style perfection". That appeals to my eye.

[jvrjenivs]

Good work! I think there is yet another item on my to do list. I really like the scabbard.

[Chuck Russell]

wow thats great! I love what you did there

[PhilusEstilius]

Here is a link to the kind of dagger handles that I make where the tang is made only 1/4 inch square and the rest of the handle can be made from plywood, the tang only goes just beyond the center rivet of the hand grip and that is the only rivet that holds the blade. The plates are hammered out of -9mm brass then after silvering the leaf shapes in them are carved out which gives a gilt effect, with the thinner tang and the punched out plates this handle is what one might call semi hollow much lighter than the blade and so stays in it's scabbard.
When it comes to the scabbard this particular one is rather questionable it is taken from a drawing in the Michel Feugere book from a drawing by R. Forrer, there is no provernance of this scabbard front plate and I have heard it said that it may be fake I went ahead and made it anyway.

http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... a/dag1.jpg

[PhilusEstilius]

Adam. Please excuse my manners for no comments on your work it's nice to see things that people will get up and have a go at well done indeed, its like I have always said if one can draw at all they can even do Repouse' like all alse everything is a matter of pratice

[ARudling]

Thanks for the reply Brian, the description of how you made the hilt was very usefull as it confirmed a few of my ideas.

One question on the scabbards though, how have you riveted the loops on ? Everyone else seems to rivet them onto the front plate tags & then has a large washer plate on the scabbard reverse for peening the rivets onto - yours seem to be attached to the backplate ?

Oh & I agree about the repouse, once you have a few basic tools its remarkably easy to do, but like most things doing it very well takes a bit of practice & patience

Thanks for your replies,

[Peroni]

I do remember Crispus mentioning brass type B scabbard plates with some etched lines, but I couldnt find any good pictures or drawings of them & hence didnt attempt any such work on mine.

There is a plain, undecorated copper-alloy Type B sheath plate from Xanten, so you certainly have a provenance for your plain brass plate there! The only difference being that the Xanten find has holes for three attachement rivets at the terminal expansion rather than the normal one central rivet.

[Medicus matt]

Nice work! Can I just ask though....

The rivets are actually made from brass domes cut from a rivet & then soldered to a nice easy to rivet copper nail, filed to match & then tinned.

Wouldn't it have been easier to use dome-headed copper rivets? You live within rock-chucking distance of one of the friendliest suppliers of non-ferrous metals (including all manner of rivets)in the UK; "Edwards Metals" in Brum.

[M. Demetrius]

One of the original questions so far unanswered was whether to make the handle wrap in steel or brass. Anybody have a good suggestion? Brass would look right with the brass plate, wouldn't it?

[PhilusEstilius]

Adam. As you can see I have made the hangers after the Velsen style ( as I like those types ) their hinge plates are not fitted to any backplate for it does not have a one. I make the scabbard out of plywood that is only 1/5mm thick and is three ply, then I use the dagger to mark out a shape on a piece of 5mm thick wood allowing for some 4 to 5mm overlap.
Then when I cut out the dagger shape leaving a circular shape at the bottom I have my edge shape for the plywood to go onto, the plywood is glued on then sanded down tidy before being covered in leather which is also glued onto the finished scabbard.
The join of the leather is at the front so when the decorative plate goes on it covers the join as in the originals, then with the hangers I use the hinge element edge to mark out where they go and cut a fine strip off the edge of the leather and drill out right thro with a 2mm drill and finish off with needle files to tidy. Then after the holes are drilled for the front plate and hinge it all goes together with a disc at the bottom decorative or plain, I also like to use a stricker plate at the top of my scabbards.
I should add that I use 2mm rivets that are tappered to points which just go thro' about 2mm and are bent over as per originals no washers for on most the Romans did not use them.

[PhilusEstilius]

David. There is a very good example of an iron handle plate in the Hunterian Museum in Glasgow Scotland, I'm not sure where it originates from but it's in good condition. However as you say with a brass scabbard plate it does look good with a brass handle, this is infact how I like to do them but then when I have any silver in the scabbard plate I have a brass one silvered or I even use silver sheet. The solid silver are expensive as I have to punch the two plates out with a tool I've made, it's a solid cast bronze handle with a heavy T shaped plate braised on the back so I can punch out with a hammer into a 1/2 inch thick brass cut out tool shape for the handle halves.
When I make two of these I cellotape them together and that way one gets the holes to match up when they are drilled to go onto the handle, if one uses 5mm plywood on a 1/4 inch dagger tang it finishes up a very light handle indeed sort of semi hollow I have to say of course I may be cheating for I drill a hole in the tang and that is all that holds the blade in with the center rivet.

[PhilusEstilius]

Adam. I have just been looking at your scabbard again and it shows 4 holes at the top with 3 at the bottom, as I mention I like to make a stricker plate for the top of my scabbards so the extra holes could be used for that.
Why I like to do this is that with a well made stricker plate that is cut and filed out neat it stops a dagger from flopping around in it's scabbard, it makes everything nice and tidy and where I have mentioned about a small 1/4 inch tang for the handle it makes it all light and does not pull ones belt down as much.

[ARudling]

Matt, I modified my rivets onto nails etc for a couple of reasons, 1) Rivets with a large enough head tend to have nice thick shafts ie like my brass rivets do 2)for said dome size the shafts of the rivets where also too short ... I had thought about filing them down 3)I didnt go hunting for new rivets of the right dimensions 'cos I'm unemployed, poor & had the other stuff in stock !

Brian thanks for your detailed replies - if I'm understanding correctly your loop holders are inserted through a slot in the side of the scabbard wood & secured by the rivets passing through holes in their buckle plates ?

Also have you seen any original's with a striker plate ? So far I havent noticed any, but I'm only going off the photo's I can find on the net.

After the comments made on this thread I think I will go with the brass wrap for the handle, maybe with some engraving lines & partial tinning

oh & i forgot to say that the wood base for this scabbard was also plywood, I'll dig out the other construction pics if anyone wants

[Medicus matt]

3)I didnt go hunting for new rivets of the right dimensions 'cos I'm unemployed, poor & had the other stuff in stock !

Good answer. :wink: