(10-07-2021, 05:47 PM)Renatus Wrote: It is a long post and contains a lot of material that may or may not be relevant to this issue.
The link you have provided just takes us to a post of mine, so that doesn't help.
The link refers to your question,which then of course refers back to the post its related to, the contents of which i copy pasted that answer your question. I also answerd it seperatly in yet another post, 2002 "Tactitis tells us how he is going to record events Tactitus, e suum quaeque in annum referre 4.71, meaning he intends to record each event in its year of occurrence, he list 2 years and chronicles the events, one of the years lacks crops sown." Why your confused as to how many campaign season there are in 2 years, i have no idea, esp since since i refererd to not being sure it can be all done ina single one several times.
Ill expand on why the years seasons are important in case its that i was unclear on that.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YEEI..._mylibrary
This has 10 years UK Army,1702-1712 covering the war of spainish succession, so living in Europe among allies and not taking from them but needing to be supplied, using the same technology more or less, means of logistical support. The UK Army campaign from 3rd week April to 3rd week Oct, average year they spend 195 on campaign, of which 39 are marching days and 178 in garrison sitting on supplies or awaiting them, when they march they achieve 14 klm, or 1.4 marching days in a week.
A slow army that is being supplied from base, by mules who can perform the march rates from magazine to Army, armies stood still consume the local food and it has to be brought in to sustain them.
By the time of the 7YW, Austria with the same supply from base, had 131 garrison days, 234 campaign days, 46 marching days, for 13klm, 1.4 days a week marching. Prussian 107 garrison days, 258 campaign days, 90 marching days, 17klm, 2.4 days a week marching. So that's 3 examples of tempo of operations, from supply from base by roughly the same technology.
What happens when you live of the land as do the French to change the operational tempo by the NW?,( France changed how to fight wars by living of the land, and everyone else was being supplied from base and had to change to keep up) then we get 173 campaign days 122 marching days, 15klm a day, average days a week marching 5.
What does it all mean, well if you can march and live of the land ( depends on population levels being there to take from them the food you need in the quantity you need) you can can 76klm a week, if your carrying it with you you can go between 22 and 40klm a week.
Iceni Campaign in days.
June/July P build his way Angelsey in 61 days effort at c9 mpd, c120 miles.
August at Angelsey resting in camp and building assualt ships, c20 days in camp, 5 building ships/camps, 6 days in the field in combat.
Sept 13 days rest,17 campaign days. Distance moved is 300 miles, 18mpd.
Oct 2 days 19mpd, 2 days rest 1 day combat.
Campaign rest days 40 (inc 5 ship building as rest days for most)
Campaign march days, 80.
Days in combat, 6.
Average march rate for campaign, 11 mpd, 6 days a week marching rate, for Sept, 18mpd, and marching rate of 17 from 19 days.
Alexander the Great Campaignhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Alexander-Great-Logistics-Macedonian-Army/dp/0520042727 in days.
See apendix 5, March rates. 80lbs carry weight. Note 10 day max can be carried.
Average march rate for campaign, 13 mpd, rest day every 5 to 7 days, so max of 6 days a week marching.Fastest single day 19.5 achieved once only.
Difference between Alexander and P is Alexander can do 18mpd once while P gets to do it for 17 days in 19 with 100lbs carried. Rest of the time both armies profile looks very similar as both have the time to live of the land.
How fast is marching 17 days out of 19 at 18mpd?, is so fast we wont need not to mechanise for warfare, but we can also see the simmularity between French and Alexander and Roman practice of operational tempo coming from living of the land as being twice that of being supplied from base. How slow are the Brits moving in this alt timeline, c5 mpd and c25 miles a week, but the archeolgy show this was horse and chariot culture, same as others using supply from base logistics and or living of the land as a Roman would, but doing so less effiecently.
UK average miles a week 18.
France average miles a week 76.
Austrian average miles a week 22.
Prussian average miles a week 42.
Alexander average miles a week 78
P in Iceni campaign average miles a week in Sept, 110+
Iceni campaign average miles a week 25.
WBTS US Army averaged 8 to 13 mpd, a range of 48 to 78miles a week, Note usual was a 3day ration carried, with a max of 10 more held in transport elements. CSA was a tad faster. Sherman lived of the land going to the sea from Atlanta, 8 mpd for 36 days, 1 rest day a week, 48 miles a week.
So USA and France and Alexander did their best to get the most out of muscle technolgy based logistics and got a range in the 70s, while in this alt timeline Romans get 110.
So Romans can roughly live of the land and move at twice the rate they can if they have to supply from base, ( this is also suppotrted by HB movement rates to get to italy and his manouver rates when in italy as being of the same ratio) depending on how effiecent they are at getting the most out of logistical tail a mule with a pay load of 190 lbs that consumes 5lbs of it has a predictable limit of 38 days before it exhusts its payload, this is why farmers who used animal muscle to bring cerial crops to towns could know if they were going to makea profit in doing so, if x is eaten over time getting it to the twon, then what you sell has to cover x or you cant makea profit and is why town with no river acess gre slower than those of rivers and sea access as they can bring in food in volume quicker and cheaper, this is known as ton miles, a mule with 190lbs in a day can deliver its 190 lbs to the distance of a round trip, twice the distance means half a payload and so till it places practical limitations to the distance supply and numbers of mules moving it is reached. So we look then at Roman Britain population numbers of c3 million thats 50 a sq mile, to feed 50 people on subsistence means they have around 3lbs of food a day to live off, so a single harvest puts, perhaps 1.5lbs of cereals into storage to live of till next harvest, so c273lbs a person.
At 50 persons a sq miles that 13650lbs per sq mile to take or depending on season is in the fields and you can take it there at a lower return depending on season and maturation of crops. If its a society that not only sustains its existing pop base and wants to grow it by having exceeds food, but also has obligations to provide another with crops, then it runs a two crop cycle or double cropping, so now there is whats stored and whats growing in the second crop cycle, so if at end of second crop cycle, you can can have perhaps 1.5 times that to be taken.
Moving at 9mpd a Roman Army living of the land can take what it wants from the sq miles it moves over, so for its own protection it prob covers an hours mounted range to either flank so has covered a box 12*9 or 108 sq miles and has time to confiscate or pay for what it takes,, and has the opportunity to acquire 1474200 lbs, from the people moved through. A 5000 man Legion requiring 11000 lbs a day is taking 1% of the available food stores each day can move and take what it wants if it can find it in storage or in the fields .Roman roads were contructed at c1.5 to 2 yards a man so to construct the road is man 105600 mens work, so a single Legion, uses 1760 men a day for 60 days, in which thats all they can do that day, to make the road to Angelsey, then another third to gather crops, leavinga third to gaurd teh other two thirds.
If otoh the legion needs speed, and wants 18mpd, it has to carry that 11000lbs instead ( its called impedimenta, ie a hindrance when referred to by Roman authors as opposed to a different name i forget atm, to supply shipped ( everyone except Dio acount seems to ignore the most cost effective means of supply is ships or barges) or muled/carted in etc, to and gains nothing and losses that 11000 by end of day, but can double its march rate, just as the French did by living of the land, so to me understanding prob pop levels, crop cycles, helps put any time line into perspective. The roman road from N wales to Chester does not exist yet, Agricola build it next decade, so the first 60 od miles with 100lbs on their backs is done cross country to get to the road to go to Godmanchester.
If the spring crop is not sown, how come the Romans dont think thats odd, why is that?, they have grain contractors buying the crops and they dont spot there are none being grown?, if its not grown why wait till june to fight sincde your eating up what you plan to use to fight with, (is it not a celtic mistake but a part of celtic planning, we know the gauls used scorched earth to fight Caesar, we know the celts did the same against caeser in Britain, we know celts when planning for war prepared the crops the year before to provide the means to wage it, if there are no crops the Romans cant live of the land and have to supply themselves, of course it cuts both ways, no crops that year mean you have to take the grain from the Romans as per Tactitus, so if there are 120000 Iceni then there must be enough Romans eating that level of grain, but i dont see any pop estimates that there are 120000 romans in S E Brittain, or perhaps you have stored the grain away to allow you to fight next year, some hill forts had many years of cerials stored in them, so perhaps the Romans view is not the same as the celts view, from not sowing in spring.) and ravage it anyways and bring on a revolt in the spring same goes if its a later crop autumn crop cycle, the celts have grown the spring crops.
Then there is how much weight you give to the druid influence, if they are organising resistance, you should expect the Iceni and Angelsey region to act in a concerted manner, not wait for one is crushed before acting, if P heads for Angelsey in Spring, against a celtic population using average pop density of under 15k, why do the Iceni wait if they Druids are organising resistance?, why would P need 20k? to defeata a total pop of 15k.
