Late roman officer and Lorica Musculata!

[Virilis]

Salvete omnes!

I will receive my new Berkasovo jewelled helmet some time in the near future. The helmet, I was told, could be a good base for an officer impression of 4th century. A suggestion was also made that I could use Lorica Musculata with it! It would surely look good but where is the evidence and how plausible would that be? If it is indeed plausible, are the any acceptable Lorica Musculata's available which are not custom made? I have right now a basic ring mail (which is too plain with the helmet) and a lamellar cuirass (iron) which looks quite good already. Of course decorated greaves & belt would be the cherry on top of the officer impression...

Just found this old thread (http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?...&id=164589) so my question is, is there any new evidence concerning the Musculata?

Thanks in advance!

[Caballo]

Just a couple of well known sources:-



Again, as mentioned in the earlier thread, note the shoulder pieces on Honorius' musculata.

Subject to all the medieval copyist issue, the Notitia Dignitatum, where the copyist has clearly illustrated both mail and some kind of plate chest armour.



The columns of Arcadius and Theodosius









Interesting discussion on the columns and also musculata here http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?...=20#289400

Overall, I think you'd have a strong case for a musculata with that magnificent helmet. The case is on iconography rather than archaeological finds, but I wonder whether the small number of musculata finds would tend to be classified as earlier rather than Late Roman unless very clearly stratified and incontrovertibly datable?

[Virilis]

Thanks Paul, this is most helpful !

I think that perhaps I should get a musculata then. Unforunately I can`t go for custom made right now but how about this?:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...le+Cuirass

This was the best basic musculata I could find, and it is quite close to the musculata Honorius is wearing in the relief. What do you think?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Recently someone posted a really good & cheap one here on RAT. Maybe it was Jim / Tarbicus? That one is dodgy.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Found it:
brass
The thread:
Thread

[Virilis]

Recently someone posted a really good & cheap one here on RAT. Maybe it was Jim / Tarbicus? That one is dodgy.

Thanks Christian, will check!

[caiusbeerquitius]

already there. look above your last post

[Caballo]

Thanks for that link- which also explains the shoulder straps on Honorius' musculata as extensions of the shoulder straps as on the one shown here
http://regalnauticals.com/muscle_armour

[Virilis]

Oh yes, but I am looking for a brass musculata. I already have a lamellar cuirass in iron...

[agrimensor]

maybe this suplier will do
http://www.battlemerchant.com/
has some musculata too
or aus oma's thruhe in gemany has some to.
good luck with the search

[Caballo]

This may be helpful for the chest Medusa?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORMOLU-GILDED-...2299wt_905

[Virilis]

Thanks guys, if I am not able to find a reasonable priced / accurate musculata I will use my lamellar cuirass for the time being:

[Statius]

Okay hypothetical question. Assuming that Lorica Musculata was worn by officers (the circumstancial evidence does appear quite compelling) what seniority of officer would typically wear such armour. Are we talking Tribunus and above? Opinions welcomed!

[magister clarissimus]

Another question: to what extent do these columns and other memorials reflect the reality of a fourth century campaign? The emperors of the fourth century are well known for borrowing from earlier memorials, presumably to give legitimacy to their power by putting it in the context of the earlier emperors, such as Trajan, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius. A well known example is the arch of Constantine, in which older reliefs are re-used. From there it would be a small step, not only to re-use parts of older monuments or use a traditional composition but also to depict the dress and gear of the second century in new carvings.

I have no proof and I realize this a very fundamental theoretical matter, but I tend to believe that the musculata was not an item seen frequently on the battlefields of the late fourth century, but a parade-item worn by the emperor or the highest officials, maybe only made for display on these occasions (like a modern deepeeka-piece...)or maybe only present in the official state-propaganda.

Would this idea be too far fetched?

[Virilis]

Good points, Edwin. I don't think that musculata was widely used by the rank and file but perhaps higher officers might be a different case?