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Salve
There was a topic 8 years ago on the Equites Stablesiani.
The discussion quickly changed to the "Gouden Helm van Helenaveen/Deurne". In his first post the TS mentioned an article by Speidel, probably referring to prof Michael P Speidel. I know prof Speidel wrote an undoubtedly awesome book ("Riding for Caesar. The Roman Emperors’ Horse Guard). If I understand it correctly this book does not cover the Equites Stablesiani.
1. Does anyone know if this is correct?
2. Does anyone have the full reference for the Speidel article on the Equites Stablesiani?
Thanks !
Christ-jan
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Some confusion here, perhaps? Speidel's book is about the Equites Singulares, or imperial horse guards, and as mentioned above it doesn't concern the Equites Stablesiani, who were a different unit altogether (or group of units...)
There were Stablesiani units in the comitatus, but they don't seem to be 'bodyguard' or elite cavalry in particular. One group of them ended up garrisoning the shore fort at Burgh.
Does anyone know what 'stablesiani' actually means?
Nathan Ross
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Quote:Does anyone have the full reference for the Speidel article on the Equites Stablesiani?
Could it be M. P. Speidel, 'Stablesiani. The raising of new cavalry units during the crisis of the Roman Empire', Chiron 4 (1974), 541-546?
Michael King Macdona
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@ Renates: that could be the reference I am looking for. I'll ask some of my academic friends to try and retrieve it for me. Thanks !
@ Nathan Here (in Dutch) the author of the webpage states that Stablesiani refers to Stablesi, supposedly the 'owner' of the units.
Maybe 'founder' would be a better term, but I hope the Speider article will shed some light on this issue.
Christ-jan
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Quote:@ Nathan Here (in Dutch) the author of the webpage states that Stablesiani refers to Stablesi, supposedly the 'owner' of the units.
Maybe 'founder' would be a better term, but I hope the Speider article will shed some light on this issue.
You are mistaken there - the text refers to the 'owner' of the helmet, not the 'owner' of the units.
I know because I wrote that text. :wink:
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Quote:Does anyone know what 'stablesiani' actually means?
I was hoping that someone might be able to give you answer, Nathan. I've never been entirely convinced by Professor Speidel's theory, that "the stablesiani served with the stablensis, an otherwise unknown officer in charge of the stables".*
It's true that our word "stable" derives from the Latin stabulum, and Ammianus Marcellinus mentions an officer called the "tribune of the stable" ( tribunus stabuli, 30.5.19). But his men were called stratores, not stablesiani.
* M.P. Speidel, "Stablesiani. The raising of new cavalry units during the crisis of the Roman empire", Chiron 4 (1974), pp. 541-546 = Speidel, Roman Army Studies I (1984), pp. 391-396.
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Quote:@ Renates: that could be the reference I am looking for. I'll ask some of my academic friends to try and retrieve it for me. Thanks !
If they can't find it I'd be happy to send you the info. Speidel's book has been resplendent on my bookshelves since it came out in 1984!
Quick thought...In the first paragraph of said article, Speidel refers to the "battle cavalry" and infers a type of rapid response unit. Quick, agile and clearly very good at stopping incursions across the empire.
And although I can be fairly anal about all things horses I had always taken the stablesiani to be a descriptor of function of the unit NOT the unit itself. Could it not be a stabilization force hence the derivitive of stabilis as opposed to stabulum?
< takes cover behind sofa> :mrgreen:
Moi Watson
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I sort of took it for granted that the 'stablesiani' came from the Emperor's stables, like the 'palatini' came from his palace.
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Quote:'stablesiani' came from the Emperor's stables, like the 'palatini' came from his palace.
Which would imply they were indeed a sort of bodyguard unit. Is there actually any evidence for that? (There may well be, but I've never heard of it! :wink: )
Quote:I had always taken the stablesiani to be a descriptor of function of the unit NOT the unit itself. Could it not be a stabilization force hence the derivitive of stabilis as opposed to stabulum?
Could well be. I must say, 'Stablesius' (as the putative founder) doesn't sound much like a genuine Roman name... Plus surely that would make the name 'Stablesiana' (like the Ala Indiana, formed by Indus, etc)? Or would the word conjugate differently with 'Equites'?
Nathan Ross
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Quote:Robert Vermaat post=308696 Wrote:'stablesiani' came from the Emperor's stables, like the 'palatini' came from his palace.
Which would imply they were indeed a sort of bodyguard unit. Is there actually any evidence for that? (There may well be, but I've never heard of it! :wink: )
I assumed the soldiers from the stables (if that's what we're talking about, and I DON'T think we are!!) were the stratores as Duncan's post said. Palace comes from the plural of Palatium so as its neuter that would be palatia therefore palatini. Needs someone better than me at Latin to work out how stabl esiani comes from stabulum though.
Quote:Vindex post=308684 Wrote:I had always taken the stablesiani to be a descriptor of function of the unit NOT the unit itself. Could it not be a stabilization force hence the derivitive of stabilis as opposed to stabulum?
Could well be. I must say, 'Stablesius' (as the putative founder) doesn't sound much like a genuine Roman name... Plus surely that would make the name 'Stablesiana' (like the Ala Indiana, formed by Indus, etc)? Or would the word conjugate differently with 'Equites'?
And Petriana etc
Again my Latin lets me down as I would like it to be "knights stabilization (force)" but if equites is nominative plural it would have to be an - es ending for stables too to agree with it...but then with -iani added???
Brain not working...it's Friday! :roll:
Moi Watson
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Quote:Again my Latin lets me down as I would like it to be "knights stabilization (force)" but if equites is nominative plural it would have to be an - es ending for stables too to agree with it...but then with -iani added???
I'm not sure that I understand you. Eques is masculine and, as you rightly say, equites is the nominative plural. Stablesiani is, presumably, the masculine nominative plural of the adjective stablesianus, -a, -um. So, 'stablesian horsemen', whatever that may mean!
Michael King Macdona
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Quote:Again my Latin lets me down...but if equites is nominative plural it would have to be an - es ending for stables too to agree with it...but then with -iani added???
My complete lack of Latin lets me down even further, but we do have the Equites Illyriciani (from Illyricum) and Equites stablesiani Italiciani (from Italia, or Italica) - so it could work as a derivation.
So if the word meant 'from the stables' (stabuli), surely it would come out as Stabuliani? How would it work as a derivation of 'stabilis'? :-?
Nathan Ross
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According to Hoffmann it's a hybrid (stablesianoi): from Latin stabulum it might have been rendered to Greek stablos, with the suffix -ianus. (Hoffmann p.251).
Hoffmann also mentioned a Tribunus or Comes stabuli, but I think he was not altogether convinced of his own solution. :wink:
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Quote: So if the word meant 'from the stables' (stabuli), surely it would come out as Stabuliani? How would it work as a derivation of 'stabilis'? :-?
Thanks - that's what I was getting at but I am trying to suggest that the word is not related to stables. We know horses/knights come from stables unless it is Stables (with a capital 'S' suggesting a particular Stable). What I am trying to suggest it is a different use of the word altogether (and not a name as was pointed out earlier) stabilis and not stabulum.
So, a modern example of the term - which I don't really like to use - would have been the change from NATO's IFOR (Implementation Force) to SFOR ( Stabilization Force)when the Balkan Crisis in the 1990s was resolvng itself
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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