I am looking for pictures and information on archeological finds and current manufactured helmets for the Optio.
1. Close up pictures or drawings of the location of the feather tubes, what they look like, and
what they were made from.
2. Historical evidence of what type of feathers would have been used. (Eagle? Hawk? other?)
3. Was there more then one tube? One on either side of the helmet?
4. What style helmet for 1 a.d - 100 a.d.
Any other specifics you might have about the Optio's Helmet.
And... can we try and keep on subject with this thread?
Sadly like your last question on Optio armour the same original answer applies here, we do not know.
The only evidence we have for an Optio's "uniform" is that sometimes we know they carried a staff. We do not know for certain if they had special armour or a distinctive helmet.
If in the past you have seen many Optio re-enactors wearing a similar outfit that is sadly because they have all copied the earliest re-construction of Optio equipment by The Ermine Street Guard. That in the main was based on the legionary tombstone of C. Valerius Crispus and not on any known Optio tombstone or equipment.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Easiest answer is stick to portraying a legionary!
Otherwise, yes I can offer suggestions but no guarantee that they are correct.
The only original images of optio's on their tombstones that I have seen do not show them in armour but in what could be called 'undress' uniform of a tunic and cloak. There does not appear to be anything out of the ordinary in what they are wearing but one could suppose that in reality their garments were made from better quality material than those worn by ordinary legionaries. These so called 'undress' clothes are likely to be a whitish tunic and a yellow brown cloak.
The optio would carry a staff but there is no general agreement on this either. The staff could be wood with a round metal knob at the top. However it could all be of wood painted or gilded. As a sign of his administrative duties the optio is sometimes shown carrying some wax writing tablets. However other soldiers carry tablets too.
To confuse things the general appearance of the optio was probably not all that different from another type of junior officer called a tessararius who also carried a type of staff and presumably writing tablets. It is possible that the Romans knew how to distinguish these soldiers from each other and the lower ranks but they have left precious little evidence for us today. There is a ring which has the words optio written on it but apart from that I do not know if anyone has even suggested whether the writing tablets and the staff were carried into action.
So overall probably slightly better quality equipment and clothing than ordinary legionaries.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Okay, as your questions also tackle feather tubes and feathers in general, here some more pics. However, remember that the use of a cresta in combination with side feathers as a distinction for the optio started as ESG practice and is highly copied. You can of course go with the flow as you want, but always remember it is a re-enactorism.
Quote:1. Close up pictures or drawings of the location of the feather tubes, what they look like, and what they were made from.
2. Historical evidence of what type of feathers would have been used. (Eagle? Hawk? other?)
3. Was there more then one tube? One on either side of the helmet?
4. What style helmet for 1 a.d - 100 a.d.
1. Search the deepeeka subforum for loads of pictures which can be of any help. Especially in the 'Gallic F' topics. Here some drawings that fellow board member Tarbicus did some years ago.
As far as I know most helmets (which got feather tubes) got 2 tubes, one on either side of the helmet, above the ears.
________________________________________ Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma CORBVLO and Fectio ALA I BATAVORUM
As an aside, what's the opinion on which bird the feathers came from? Grave stele of two cavalrymen (Insus and Flavinus) show very tall feathers. The side tubes themselves look very substantial, but one assumes (always dangerous) that the feathers were in a holder of some sort to keep them straight.
What's in vogue with re-enactors?
Edit: Oops...consider this a reiteration of Patrick's point 2!
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
[attachment=4758]SPHelm021Small.jpg[/attachment]
I would think that the feathers worn by Flavinus are Ostrich and maybe held in side tubes such as these.
In having said that Flavinus was a Cavalry standard bearer and might have been wearing a sports helmet but then we are not so sure and of course we are drifting a little off topic again however these ones are indeed held by side tubes.
[attachment=4759]lepasqua110Small.jpg[/attachment]
I am not sure if the fantastic crest with a pony tail is an idea of the ESG however here is a picture of myself in Toga at Le Pasqua in Sicily during the trial of Christ and at the bottom right is an Optio.
I think the helmet was a Coolus that fits the time period but then he does not have a crest but does have what look to be Goose feathers.
The feathers I use are from geese - the domestic white goose. I have them in white and also sets dyed red and blue. In addition, thanks to the Canada geese, who are ubiquitous in the pond by my apartments, I have a perfectly matched pair of their feathers, which are a light brown in color. The swans who also swim the lake don't come ashore on the residential side of the pond - and if they did, I'd stay far out of their way,so I have no swan feathers.
However, to again note, as I have posted elsewhere, when talking to the public, I am careful to emphasize my staff as the badge of my rank and NOT the feathers. My staff (hastile - a diminutive of hasta, spear) is not elaborate, rather just a plain hardwood staff topped by a wood ball. I didn't put any kind of buttspike on it, leaving it all its natural wood. Of course, I use mine, and will demonstrate the reach I have with it. I still remember the second year (I think/I don't really recall except it was either that or the first year) that I went to Roman Days in Maryland. Matt Amt demonstrated the reach he had with his optio staff, and beaned me on the helmet, 4 soldiers down the line from where he stood.
Quinton Johansen
Marcus Quintius Clavus, Optio Secundae Pili Prioris Legionis III Cyrenaicae
I would think that the feathers worn by Flavinus are Ostrich
They do indeed look very impressive in your reconstruction and replicate what appears to be shown on the monument. I guess their must have been an empire wide trade in such goods about which the only evidence I know of off hand is the ostrich being taken aboard a ship in the Piazza Armerina mosaic.
What type of feathers are in the crests of the 'Praetorians' in your picture Brian?
I was having an interesting discussion with a member of another Forum recently. Apart from a couple of examples which are not very conclusive there are in fact almost no reliable depiction of central horsehair crests in Roman art from the imperial period at all. They are nearly all on closer inspection feathered crests.
This would suggest another 're-enactorism' in which nearly all central crests are horsehair! The only exceptions I could come up with after a quick search was a single example on the Ephesus ivory and the tombstone of centurion T. Calidius Severus from Carnuntum. What I did find was that some central feathered crests had a horsehair tail, which if viewed from a distance or in a poorly reproduced photo made it look like the whole crest was horsehair.
If anyone does find any crests from the imperial period which are clearly horsehair please let me know. Interesting isn't' it!
The 'optio uniform' of black and white horsehair crest with a tail and white side feathers, mail shirt with shoulder doubling over a leather arming doublet with a white tunic and a satchel holding a tablet with a wooden staff with silvered ball was certainly used first by the ESG and copied by nearly every other group, illustrator and modeller, evidence for which you can see if you just Google image search Roman optio! :-D
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Here is another picture of my friend the Centurian who in fact I kitted out and he is the only one wearing a horse hair crest that I made where all the others have Ostrich feathers made by my other friend Riamondo Ruggeri.
The Centurian was explaining to me that when Pontius leaves the stage to remove his armour then return for the hands washing I had to go with him but I was a little nervous for I had not studs in my shoes and the steps were wet with earlier rain but all went well anyway and believe it the man taking that part his true name is Pioloto.
The Optio in the earlier picture is my other Italian friend in Sicily who along with others took me to see Piazza Armerina.
Graham...
Is it possible that they had interchangable Crests? I used to be a professional Water Fowl carver and have seen and worked with many different types of feathers. On a practical note, the mere weight and bulkiness of a Roman Helmet makes me think that feathers would have been used only in a Parade Dress and not a Battle Dress. Feathers are indeed durable on a bird, duck, goose, swan or ostrich... but on a helmet i think they would become to easily damaged. Whereas, horse hair would be durable under any condition.
Back to the feathers... feathers would need to be oiled for exposure. Otherwize they become dried out and brittle. So in the elements such as rain, sun, or snow, they wouldn't last that long without having to be replaced. They would also have to be oiled in order to repel rain or snow.
The veins in a feather have microscopic barbs that hold them together so all the veins flow as a nearly solid aerodynamic material. Feather veins split but will flow back together and hold as one. Quills on the other hand can easily break if simply struck broadside whicn maks me think that one mishandling of a helmet would sheer off the feathers midway.
Wondering if this is where logic would come into play.
The reason I asked what type of feather is... there is a $10,000 fine in the USA for having in your possession a feather from a bird of Prey (i.e. Eagle, Hawk, Owl) You must be a licensed falconder or an American Indian.
I appreciate the input everyone is giving this thread. Gaining a lot of insite.
Quote:... makes me think that feathers would have been used only in a Parade Dress and not a Battle Dress.
Well, first of all, it is argued that the Roman didn't have a 'parade dress' the way we think of it now and that is just a modern assumption.
Secondly, we have an interesting quote in this respect, from Ceasar (I think it is his 'Gallic wars') where he talked about a surprise attack and mention that his men 'doesn't have the time to take of the shield covers from their shield and put the crestae on their helmets' e.g. this would suggest that during the march the cresta (or in that time loose feathers) were safely put into the bag, but on battle preparation they were put onto their helmets.
________________________________________ Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma CORBVLO and Fectio ALA I BATAVORUM
![[Image: gallic_f_02.jpg]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/tarbicus/gallic_f_02.jpg)
