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Correct hafting for a francisca throwing axe?
#1
I have a Windlass francisca, which isn't too bad, actually, apart from the angle of the haft hole and the haft itself. My question is this: is the haft of a francisca supposed to be straight, or curved towards the bottom in some fashion, as shown in my attached picture (A = straight; B = end curved rearwards; C = end curved forwards). I have seen "B" in a drawing of a burial in Die Alamannen, but I can't tell if that is based on actual remains of the haft, or artist's whim (nothing in the text seemed to touch on this point). I have seen "C" in some Angus McBride art, but I do not have any confidence that it is based on fact.

Is there any archaeological evidence, or practical experiments at least, to support any particular conclusion?


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#2
I'm pretty certain that nothing remains in the archaeological record to inform us one way or the other.
The only one I can think of which has substantial shaft remains is one from France in the British museum. A small bit of shaft protrudes from either end of the axe socket and I suppose if pushed you'd say that the shaft seems to curve towards the blade rather than being straight or curving away from it.
"Medicus" Matt Bunker

[size=150:1m4mc8o1]WURSTWASSER![/size]
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#3
A picture of said francisca in the British Museum.


[attachment=6900]MontBlancaxe.jpg[/attachment]


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"Medicus" Matt Bunker

[size=150:1m4mc8o1]WURSTWASSER![/size]
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#4
The more the end of the shaft curves in your direction (so away from the cutting edge), the more elongated it's curvature will be mid-flight. It's all a matter of practice, but I suggest a simple straight one for your first one, that's pretty standard. If you can throw it well, you can experiment with others.

Franciscae is a lot of fun to play with, though the best videos/sources you can find is of tomahawk-throwers. Sad part is, that you shan't use it in battle displays, even if you practiced it with someone and do it pretty safe.
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#5
No, but you can use it against standing targets, along with archery and Javelin throwing displays.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#6
Yeah, but you have to stand quite far from the audience. I've witnessed a francisca changing path contacting the shield, and flying in a totally different direction, fast and furious Smile
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#7
I can stick a straight handled tomahawk/axe pretty consistently, though I'm a bit out of practice. A curved end on the handle (in either direction) seems like it would make the rotation of the axe more difficult to control. Throwing an axe involves NOT adding any spin to the throw. Because it's off-balance by nature, it rotates all by itself, so the trick is to adjust the distance to a consistent release.

Not to say that one couldn't learn to use any shape of handle: one could. But in teaching people how to throw a 'hawk, it's important to get them to release the throw smoothly, not like in the Kung Fu movies where the axe spins fifty times before getting to target. Looks cool, but each time the axe rotates, the percentage chance of hitting the target on its blade decreases.

Just sayin'
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#8
One thing you learn very quickly when throwing them against targets is that you really don't need to hit them with the sharp bit.
Used en masse by infantry as a final projectile weapon when closing at speed, it's really just a lump of iron on a stick, smashing shields, arms, faces, ankles...whatever it connects with.
I can, with a bit of practice, get them to stick in a target when I'm static but as for doing it whilst charging forward? Forget it.

I suspect that the sharp bit only really comes into play when being used as a short arm rather than projectile.

Would tumbling in the air increase the momentum on impact (my brain says yes but I'm rubbish at physics) and, if so, would that make a curved handle more or less likley?
"Medicus" Matt Bunker

[size=150:1m4mc8o1]WURSTWASSER![/size]
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#9
hello

see here => http://www.musee-itinerant.org/site/spip.php?article108
Christian Delabos
Le Musée Itinérant (France)
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#10
Matt: it would increase the force of the impact, but not that much, I suppose. I'm not sure how much it depends on the rotational force.
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#11
Quote:hello

see here => http://www.musee-itinerant.org/site/spip.php?article108

Very useful, especially since with some of them it shows the socket angle. Though it does not show the correct shape of the haft itself, but no surprise since that doesn't survive (mostly).
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#12
You know, I may have answered my own question. Ran across this on the web (see attached pic); looks like the answer
[attachment=6906]francisca_truchtelfingen_grave229_267.jpg[/attachment]
is "C":


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#13
That is a nice find and reconstruction drawing but a non.typical form of francisca-head. Most of the pieces I know out of books or by examining in original have a simpler shaped eye as in Matts pic above. The holes for the shaft seem all to be conical in just one direction. They are wide wher the shaft comes in and get smaller to the top. So no standard-fixing of the wood with a wedge seems to be possible. My personal theory is that they wanted the shafts to fall out after hitting target so that it cannot be thrown back easily
Als Mensch zu dumm, als Schwein zu kleine Ohren...

Jürgen Graßler

www.schorsch-der-schmied.de
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#14
Quote:You know, I may have answered my own question. Ran across this on the web (see attached pic); looks like the answer
[attachment=6906]francisca_truchtelfingen_grave229_267.jpg[/attachment]
is "C":

There is also the possibility that once the wood had degraded from the metal that it was distorted in the ground. That curve may be as a result of many years of ground pressure.
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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#15
hello

what is the source of this draw?
Christian Delabos
Le Musée Itinérant (France)
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