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08-17-2004, 07:54 PM

Ave 
 
Simple question how did the romans hold their shields? i recently bought one from a friend(beautiful craftmanship) what i relized is that the top part of the Circle rides the top of your hand and when u pick it up you have to use it for leverage...Am I holding it wrong or am I just out of shape? 
 
 
Legate Billamus 
Florida's 10th

08-18-2004, 12:20 AM

Yes, the over-hand grip is correct. I use a piece of fake sheep skin car wash mitt as padding for my left hand.

Theodosius the Great · 08-19-2004, 05:53 AM

Avete ! 
 
I've experienced the same problem and considered using thin leather strips to compensate. But that fake sheep skin solution seems to work well. 
 
I wonder if there's a better solution though since it's hard for me to stuff the hole with the sheep skin given that I have rather large hands. 
 
Anyone else have any other helpful suggestions ? 
 
Valete ! 
-Theo

Matthew Amt · 08-19-2004, 01:16 PM

You could try just making the hole a little larger. It'll be covered by the boss. Carefully cut and peel back the fabric or leather covering, rasp or Dremel away some wood, and glue the covering back down. Angle the edge of the hole for a little more space. 
 
Any reason why the sheepskin has to be fake? You can get the real stuff easily enough... Or just make a pad out of folded linen or wool scraps. 
 
Valete, 
 
Matthew/Quintus

derek forrest · 08-19-2004, 06:34 PM

I wonder if this is a problem for the tiro. I had this at the begining but never bothers me now. Probably something to do with the way the shield is held and the strengthening of the fingers. Even so I have one of those enormous Casio G shock watches and if I am carrying shields in modern dress it makes the shield hang well and comfortably. Speaking of padding I noticed that the Brittannia people who are used to fighting had put a lot of padding on the top and bottom of their scuta to stop the usual injury from shield against nose/helmet. Indeed I had no padding and had just such an injury on a nose already burned. Ouch!! There is no reason why this would not have been done by combat prepared legionaries whose life not just dignity was at stake.

Theodosius the Great · 08-19-2004, 06:57 PM

Well, whenever I hold it for a few minutes and do some violent manuveurs I find on the back of my hand wide, deep cresent-shaped indentations. (Not to mention pain) Apparently, it's from the back of the boss and the top of the hole as well. These scuta are not exactly ergonomic .

08-19-2004, 10:24 PM

We obtained a load of Deepeeka Scuta which tend to exagerate this problem, due to the circular hole in the scutum being too small and the handle being mounted flush against the scutum surface. 
 
The scuta i have made have a good size circular hole (which can be chamfered at the edges with a rasp) and have a bow shaped handle allowing the grip to be positioned away from the boss and scutum surface. Result; no chafing. 
 
The only problem comes in combat, when your hand can slip about a bit. Either sheepskin or leather glued on helps this. In combat My shins tend to take a hammering when bracing the scutum and I have toyed with Derek's comment of some sheepskin padding. Yet to try that one though 
 
Mummius

08-20-2004, 03:28 AM

I'm really only new to all this, so forgive me if these ideas are in the 'out of the question' category. 
 
Depending on where exactly the chaffing occurs, you could where leather braces. Depending on the period I suppose. If it's the top of the hand, rather than the wrist, then you could build the handle out from being flush like mummius said. As for the scutum smacking into your shins, you could try putting the handle slightly below the centre of gravity, so the shield tends to lean in up the top and you could brace it with your elbow. 
 
But I have no practical experience in this area unfortunetly, so all these are just theories and quite possibly majorly flawed ones at that.

Gashford · 08-20-2004, 08:20 AM

Hello all 
 
When I started fighting as a gladiator, well training, the shield I used was a full size scutum as a provocator. 
 
It was heavy, unwieldy and above all hurt the top of my hand like nothing on earth. 
 
After a couple of weeks of training with the shield I was once amazed to realise that I had been training for 2 and a half hours without putting the shield down and not once did I feel the pains I had once had and control over the shield was quite good. 
 
I am by no means a superman or strength athelete and this is what happened, so the hardy types that probably joint the Roman army I think might have had a far easier job of getting over it. 
 
I suspect that people just got on with it and as with most things they just became easier. The human body is amazing at getting used to job specific pain or discomfort.

Matthew Amt · 08-20-2004, 01:32 PM

Sgt. Steiner writes: "Depending on where exactly the chaffing occurs, you could where leather braces." 
 
There is no evidence that anything like leather bracers or wrist-guards were ever worn by any Roman soldier, with the exception of an archer's bracer. Same for Greeks, Vikings, Saxons, Gauls, you name it. Pure Hollywood, I'm afraid. Stamp them out ruthlessly! 
 
"If it's the top of the hand, rather than the wrist, then you could build the handle out from being flush like mummius said." 
 
Unfortunately, original shields are done quite the opposite way. Instead of a single circular hole, there is a pair of semi-circular holes (or one semi-circular and one trapezoidal), separated by a horizontal strip which forms part of the handle. Strictly speaking, the grip should NOT be set out from the back of the shield. 
 
"As for the scutum smacking into your shins, you could try putting the handle slightly below the centre of gravity, so the shield tends to lean in up the top and you could brace it with your elbow." 
 
You don't need to do that with a curved shield. The curvature puts most of the mass behind the handle, so it leans back into the shoulder quite naturally. If the shield is banging into your shins, it may be too long, or you just need to get used to holding it. 
 
I suspect that part of the problem is that many reproduction shields are too heavy. And the hole for the hand may be too small, as well. Just be careful about overcompensating and making the boss too big--5 inches in diameter is about as big as you want for the dome. 
 
Valete, 
 
Matthew/Quintus

08-20-2004, 05:49 PM

Anyone who has gone this route know?

08-21-2004, 02:48 AM

Thanks Matt, this is all good stuff to know. 
 
btw..is the idea that braces weren't used taken from evidence about it, or a lack of evidence to supoort their use? True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sgtsteiner@romanarmytalk>Sgt Steiner</A> at: 8/21/04 4:51 am

08-21-2004, 07:43 AM

Yes to the question about wooden strips. 
 
Years ago I came across a man at a welsh event who had made a scutum out of poplar wood and cassein glue. 3 layers thick, curved and rectangular. The shield was very thick in the center and thin on the edges. He let me pick it up and I was surprised by the weight. So light compared to others I had handled which had been made using modern plywood.

Matthew Amt · 08-21-2004, 04:20 PM

Sgt. Steiner writes: "btw..is the idea that braces weren't used taken from evidence about it, or a lack of evidence to supoort their use?" 
 
It's my usual rule of thumb: If there are no depictions, descriptions in literature, or archeological remains, then the item in question "does not exist". I use quotes there because that means in a functional sense, as a piece of clothing or equipment that someone wishes to reconstruct. Without some basis in the evidence, I don't allow it in my group. 
 
Sure, there are exceptions, and there are things we can't do without so we're forced to fill in the gaps. This ain't one of them. And because of the Hollywood stigma I tend to tread even more carefully! 
 
And clearly we can't prove that any item did NOT exist, or we'd be perfectly justified in wearing swim fins and tutus. 
 
So that's just how I think. It makes a very safe way to approach any historical research. 
 
Vale, 
 
Matthew/Quintus

Aluscladiusmaximus · 08-21-2004, 09:51 PM

My understanding is that is the correct way to make a legionary shield.The ESG have a republican period shield made in this way and it is quite light compared with the plywood display shields. 
I think the soldiers in roman times were smaller than we are so the cutouts for the hands need to be enlarged to allow for our larger hands. 
When I use a shield for practice fighting I brace it against my shoulder with my forearm parallel to the ground so there is less force on the wrist 
Aulus Cladius Maximus

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