Pouan sword help

[IGNATIUS LARRASUS PROFUTURUS]

I try to make a Pouan type sword but I have some doubts.
The shape of the sword handle is hexagonal or octagonal?
Thanks

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Ha! I've been wanting to reconstruct the Pouan Blade for years!

The Pouan was very similar to the Feltwell blade, and had a Hexagonal Blade construction.



The blade's Handle appears to be hexagonal, not octagonal.

[IGNATIUS LARRASUS PROFUTURUS]

Thank you. All photos and drawings that I have of that kind of swords, the shape of the hilt are not recognized because they never have a side angle. I have a picture of a reconstruction, I think the sword of Childeric, that clearly shows the octagonal shape but do not know if it is a speculation or if the original was, because in the pictures of the original is not visible.

[attachment=10037]DespieceMango.jpg[/attachment]

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Note: The placement of the Cloisonne in this image is WRONG.

But, it does show the hilt pretty nicely, although not from the side, and it appears hexagonal.



I'll see if I have an image of the Pouan hilt in my Mik's book image collection.

[XorX]

according to Menghin, all of these late gold hilts are hexagonal. the parts in the first pic (blue background) show the right position of the handle parts as to find in Menghin and Miks. the pic with the red background uses parts of the seax-scabbard and lacks the iron pommel cap with cloisonnee and the silver plate of the cross-piece.

Menghin: "Das Schwert im frühen Mittelalter" page 180, 182
Miks: "Studien zur Schwertbewaffnung in der röm. Kaiserzeit", catalogue page 708, 709, Taf. 142, 284

[StephenCurtin]

Thank you. All photos and drawings that I have of that kind of swords, the shape of the hilt are not recognized because they never have a side angle. I have a picture of a reconstruction, I think the sword of Childeric, that clearly shows the octagonal shape but do not know if it is a speculation or if the original was, because in the pictures of the original is not visible.

This is a replica of the Blucina spatha. The smith (Patrick Barta) examined the fragments of the hilt, including the octagonal grip, so we can assume that this is an accurate reconstruction.

[IGNATIUS LARRASUS PROFUTURUS]

Thanks, I could see the Miks's book but not appreciated hexagonal or octagonal shape in the image but maybe in the text the data appears. If someone can verify I will be very grateful.

[Thomas V.]

A picture of the original piece: [hide]http://www.akg-images.co.uk/Docs/AKG/Media/TR3_WATERMARKED/8/f/4/5/AKG568571.jpg[/hide]. The octagonal cross section of the handle is clearly visible.

EDIT

In this photo the handle of the Pouan sword can be seen from the side: [hide]http://www.flickr.com/photos/31117927@N03/4812139512/sizes/o/in/set-72157624418773119/[/hide]. It seems to be octagonal.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Pouan is both a wierd and a great sword in that it shows the transition from Roman Spathas like the Feltwell, to Migration Spathas like the Childeric and Blucina.

[XorX]

thank you. so Miks and Menghin are wrong in this point. they both say hexagonal

[Thomas V.]

I try to make a Pouan type sword but I have some doubts.
The shape of the sword handle is hexagonal or octagonal?
Thanks

According to Elis Behmer, the handle of the Pouan sword has an octagonal cross section ("Das zweischneidige Schwert der germanischen Völkerwanderungszeit", Stockholm : Tryckeriaktiebolaget Svea, 1939, p. 55).

[IGNATIUS LARRASUS PROFUTURUS]

Thanks, The date of Behmer seems serious.

[Thomas V.]

Fig. 1 (p. 66) shows the grip of the Pouan sword: [hide]Sur le trésor barbare de Pouan (Aube)[/hide]. On the left side of the handle a plane is visible (esp. after enlarging the document); said plane can be considered as the narrow side of an octagon.

Böhner attributes the Pouan sword and the Tournai sword to the same group ("Frankish" gold hilt spathas). This photo clearly shows the octagonal cross section of the grip of the Tournai sword:[hide] http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/91044...5f56_o.jpg[/hide]. According to Behmer, the gold covers of said two swords were manufactured in the same manner: A single-piece gold shell that is pressed together on the side encases the whole grip.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Except for the fact that the Pouan Sword is not a Frankish Blade: Cloisonne seems to have arrived in Frankish culture from the Huns when Childeric came in 459, after the death of his younger brother Merovaeus/Merovech.

The Pouan Sword is Burgundian, probably River Neccar Burgundian considering they were subjugated in the 430's by the Hun Confederation.

[XorX]

The Pouan Sword is Burgundian, probably River Neccar Burgundian considering they were subjugated in the 430's by the Hun Confederation.

well, you know my opinion ;-)
there is no proof for that... the whole treasure was found in circumstances that allow no such interpretation. particularly because we have no comparing "burgundian" weapon