pteruges

[Anonymous]

Does anybody have info on how to make pteruges for under a mail shirt ? <p></p><i></i>

[Mithras]

Generally you need to attach the pteruges to a thoramachus or padding jacket. They are in effect extensions of that jacket. Whether they are made of leather or linen depends on your choice of material for the thoramachus. I've just finished my jacket and would love to add linen pteruges to the bottom but my mail is thigh length so there's no point. <p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i></i>

[Theodosius the Great]

Have you checked out this recent thread : [url=http://p200.ezboard.com/fromanarmytalkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1172.topic" target="top]p200.ezboard.com/fromanarmytalkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1172.topic[/url] <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Avete! Just posted this on Theo's afore-mentioned thread in Archeaology, but here's some thought if anyone's interested:<br>
<br>
After experimenting with several materials, I must confess that the leather pteruges wins hands down in my book (and I'm referring to legionary pteruges primarily... i.e., the ones reenactors would make and use, not someone portraying Augustus). Reasons:<br>
<br>
1) Heavy but pliable, able to withstand prolonged usage while retaining their sharp look.<br>
2) Haven't found any yet... well, how many linen pteruges have been found?<br>
3) The evidence shows them all to look like linen... the evidence also shows legionaries in the Dacian war wearing caligae, Attic helmets in the Byzantine era, et al. We know the Romans had a thing about keeping "traditional" appearances on their public monuments.<br>
4) Let's not confuse images of an emperor with those of ground assault troops. It's certain that the materials would be wildly different.<br>
5) How hard/time-consuming is it to whip up a set of hard wearing leather pteruges? About an hour at most, plus a lot longer to edge them, which you can do at your leisure, even while they're on the garment. How much time to glue multiple layers of linen together and do the same thing? Quite a bit longer, I suspect.<br>
5) The field life of any piece of equipment that relies on glue as its primary ingredient will naturally be shorter than one that does not (think rain and/or sweat-soaking).<br>
6) A pteruge damaged or torn from the subarmalis? Grab a strap-cutter vs. lemme just go glue a dozen layers of linen together... Yeah, that'll match alright.<br>
<br>
Dan's observations about them possibly being of a buff leather and hence less likely to survive (following his comment that he's fairly certain they were in fact made of linen) is one possibility as to the lack of evidence. A more plausible idea (IMHO): images of Arthurian and Germanic (and even Byzantine) troops frequently show them wearing pteruges on their garments after Rome "fell". Any reenactor who owns a padded leather subarmalis with pteruges can attest that it quickly becomes one of the most versatile and comfortable garments in our inventory. Could it be these items were simply worn til they fell apart, then were replaced, but with the pteruges eventually falling by the wayside? Hmm...<br>
<br>
Darius<br>
LVIVPF <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Oops, made two number "5"s... so used to Roman numbers, these Arabic thangs confound me! <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave,<br>
Good points Darius. As an alternate method, (which is what I would do if I were creating an officers impression) heavy leather pteruges could have been enclosed in a simple linen sleeve, perhaps replaceable, but giving the qualities of the leather, which seem important, but with the finer look of the linen- clearly still more fragile, but the leather is there underneath. It would also have been much easier to construct than building layers of linen up, either via glue or stitching, and completely eliminates the potential of raw raveling edges. I'll grant you could put a glued/stitched linen base pteruge in a sleeve as well, but so much more work than the leather. Again, leather seems more apropriate for a man "in the trenches", and linen for an officer who needs to look more impressive.<br>
Valete, Florentius<br>
www.florentius.com <br>
LEG VI VIC PF <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I agree with the above , and a sleeve for leather seems indeed a more practical way of keeping 'the look' , and making replacements in the field easy.<br>
I also think that ,as with all the other equipment , that the status of the wearer would be a significant influence.<br>
The basic 'poor' soldier would therefore be the person to wear easy to make and replace leather pteruges.<br>
<br>
Do you have any guesses on how the ends of the pteruges were decorated (stitching or tassels) , and how to make those authentic for reenactment use ? <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

The majority of the evidence shows them to have been fringed. Again, though, the majority shows them being worn by officers. Contemporary artists (Sumner, Connolly, and the fellow that draws those reeeeaally squat, wide people in some of the Osprey books) show them on enlisted troops without the fringe. So it's more of a "what do you think would have been accurate?" question. I would add that for those tha5 decide to go with leather pteruges, and who think fringed would be more accurate, that there are companies that offer fine leather fringes for sale (don't have the names in front of me, but can post them later this week).<br>
<br>
Re: pendants on the ends, I've not seen this very often, if ever. Emperors have well-designed pendants in the shapes of gorgon heads, lions, etc., affixed to their lappets (the shallow, scalloped leather trim that is seen below the Muscelata), but usually none on the pteruges themselves. With finer leather, you would certainly want something to weigh them down a bit, of course, but on heavy leather or canvas ones like the type enlisted men may have worn, there would not be the need for them.<br>
<br>
Darius<br>
L VI VPF <p></p><i></i>

[Emeraldweapon7d]

I think i've read somewhere that officers have been depected with pteruges that have squareish ends but enlisted would have the rounded ends. is there any truth to this? <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave,<br>
All the depictions of pteruges on officers that I am aware of have fringe, and are square ended. I believe I have seen an image (carving, etc.) or so of petruges with rounded ends, but more often than not they are square. It doesn't appear that end shape goes with rank. However, I think it would be safe to say that a round ended pteruge would more likely be leather than linen, simply for 'fraying' sake.<br>
<br>
Valete, Florentius <p></p><i></i>

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,<br>
<br>
I finished my pteruges, finally .<br>
<br>
I'm wearing a corbridge A seg because I'm still waiting on my Newstead . I should be getting it in March though.<br>
<br>
<img src="http://photobucket.com/albums/y25/RCasti998/pterueges4.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
I'd like to thank Jared and Darius from Legion VI for helping me with my pterueges .<br>
<br>
-Theo <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=theodosiusthegreat>Theodosius the Great</A> at: 2/27/05 8:50 am<br></i>