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Hi,
For shoulder and thigh pteruges, what width are you using? And how many per shoulder?
Also, on many orginals, I see stitching- was linen attached to the pteruges to stiffen them?
Look forward to your thoughts,
Cheers
Britannicus
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Paulus,
Two possibilities come to mind regarding the "Stitching".
1. It was stitching two layers of leather together for extra rigidity.
2. What we see on sculpture is perhaps punched decoration and not
stitching.
Certainly two layers of leather would be easier to do put together than the time consuming method of gluing together layers of linen, then attaching these to the defence.
My pteruges are 2" wide for the 'skirt' and just over 1 1/2" for the shoulders. I only have 6 strips on each shoulder. They are attached in a spread fan pattern so that when the subarmalis is put on, the strips all lie straight and at the same length down the arm.
Regards,
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Thanks Peroni....if only I'd waited before cutting them last night in a straight line rather than a fan shape......
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Hi,
Just got through updating my website on pteruges.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... m#pteruges
Basically, all the modern reconstructions show far too few pteruges. Most put on 6-12 pteruges. The actual range is more like 20-60! I have pictures, you can count them.
Hope this helps.
Travis
Update: Sorry about the broken link, I put a slash instead of a dot.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
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Quote:Hi,
Just got through updating my website on pteruges.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... m#pteruges
Travis, the link doesn't seem to work.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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Sorry about the broken link above.
I've fixed it now. Here it is again.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... m#pteruges
Thanks.
Travis
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Think that it would be most useful if the pterugae would have a layer of cloth sandwiched between, say, two layers of leather. Making the cloth layer longer than the leather ones, the fringes could be easily constructed in a way that they would stay firmly attached to their pteruga.
Aitor
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Quote:Think that it would be most useful if the pterugae would have a layer of cloth sandwiched between, say, two layers of leather. Making the cloth layer longer than the leather ones, the fringes could be easily constructed in a way that they would stay firmly attached to their pteruga.
Hard to say... I've looked at these things in person a lot. The edges of the pteruges are definitely edged with some kind of sewn edge. You can see this in the images.
When I look at some of them, especially this example. They look more like cloth to me.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... sdet5a.jpg
Notice how the edges are twisted, this isn't just from being beat up, it was carved that way.
They look stiff, but rather rumpled, more like cloth than leather, but that's just my impression.
But it could be cloth over a leather core too, so it's impossible to say.
Thanks for the insight
Travis.
[/i]
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"The edges of the pteruges are definitely edged with some kind of sewn edge. " There are a number of illustrations that show unedged pteruges- would you agree that these are authentic, or should all be edged?
I have now re-done my shoulder pteruges- trial gluing before final sewing is a good call!
Present position:-
-two rows of pteruges, one over the top of the other
-Fan construction, parallel sides
-9 per shoulder
- Just under two inches wide, six inches protruding under the hamata
-As yet unedged....
Now for sewing...
Cheers
Britannicus
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SALVE
my shoulder pteruges:
Two rows of pteruges, one over the top of the other, overlapping. The top one are shorter.
Rectangular shape, with a red color stich edge. Made by two layers of leather glued fleshside with fleshside, and then stitched. They are rigid, so protective.
Stitching made with the shoemaker's method (with two needles).
I think that thoracatae statues shows many kind of pteruges, probably some were made of leather, others of cloth, others of both things.
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Could you post a closer pic of them?
Ivan Perelló
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Hi Travis,
Are you certain that the twisted fringe on pteruges is indicative of the Antonnine era ?
Because I've seem to have stumbled on contradictory evidence. Take a look at this sarcophagus relief dated to the 2nd century BC :
It's from the cover of my book authored by Goldsworthy : "In The Name Of Rome"
The cavalryman seems to be wearing lorica musculata. Maybe the twisted fringe was merely revived during the Antonnine period ?
Jaime
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First, a lot of people have asked me to post images of pteruges. I have gone through my images and I will be updating the pteruges page with a lot more images and details.
About the twisted fringe, sure it's possible that the twisted fringe is a revivalism, I just don't know!
hock: Let me look into this. I don't know the particular sarcophagus.
As far as it being a "tell" for an antonine period piece I have no doubt. It shows up with hadrian and continues through the Antonine period. It's one of the more rigid stylisms for the period. What I don't know is whether it represents a change in technology, or a change in style. The lorica from the Julio-Claudian period have pretty standard fringe which is the hellenistic style (I'll post pictures). The heavy more twisted style is clearly a later affectation in the Roman context, whether it shows up earlier in a Greek context, I don't know.
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Does someone know what a "fan pattern" looks like for shoulder pteruges :?: Are there measurements available to make a pattern :?:
Would the pteruges get progressively shorter as they move further away from the the center (in order to get them to align in a straight horizontal line when worn) :?:
I'm guessing it would look something like this :
Is this right or even close :?:
Theo
Jaime
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Great!
Thanx Theo!
Ivan Perelló
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