Subarmalis/pteruges fragment from vindolanda?

[tlclark]

Tracking down a source here from hearsay.

This is all from a memory 20 years ago so the details are fuzzy.

One of my contacts remembers a museum exhibition from the Cincinatti Museum of Art circa 1985 that showed a fragment supposedly from vindolanda.

The curators reconstructed this as a belt of pteruges. The theory was the pteruges were a separate piece from the subarmalis and were laced on.

This is exciting because it explains the presence of laces on many representations of the musculata. It also makes a lot of sense because it means that the pteruges - which might be a more elaborate and showy piece of equipment - could easily be removed so that the subarmalis - which doesn't show - could be washed or replaced when it wore out or got soiled. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Small problem, I can't find any source for it, so my friend's memory is suspect. I would REALLY like this to be true, but alas, that's not how this damn scholarship thing is supposed to work. (Drat!)

Any ideas? He knows it was Cincinatti OH, circa 1985, but he's not sure if the site was Vindolanda, but he thinks that's right.

Travis

[Peroni]

Travis, I'm not aware of any pteruges fragment, but wasn't there a cingulum strap with fittings found there?

[tlclark]

Peroni,

It's possible that my friend had confused a cingulum with a pteruges.

I've only found one source that might be it: (Helps if you know how to spell Cincinnati!)

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookD ... &an=Norman

A collection from the Tower of London sponsored by Norwich Univ. Exhibition 1982.

Anybody seen this book?

Anybody know if there are any Roman finds from the Tower of London?

Thanks

Travis

[mcbishop]

A collection from the Tower of London sponsored by Norwich Univ. Exhibition 1982.

Anybody seen this book?

Anybody know if there are any Roman finds from the Tower of London?

I think it's 'from' the Tower of London in the sense that the Royal Armouries used to be there. There's no military equipment from the Tower in the forthcoming corpus that I know of. In Russell Robinson's time they did have the Brigetio helmet on extended loan from the National Museum of Wales (you can see it at Caerleon now, rather bizarrely).

Mike Bishop

[Celer]

Salve

The only reference I know of for surviving pteryges is from Graham Sumner's Roman Military Clothing (3). There is a black and white illustration of the surviving garment fragment on page 47, and a reconstruction on page G3. Perhaps he can provide more information.

Vale,

[Graham Sumner]

The only reference I know of for surviving pteryges is from Graham Sumner's Roman Military Clothing (3). There is a black and white illustration of the surviving garment fragment on page 47, and a reconstruction on page G3. Perhaps he can provide more information.

Hi

I don't think it is the same thing as that was the middle side part of a leather cuirass and I am sure if the item Travis describes was found at Vindolanda I would have seen it before or read the report.

However I wonder whether what Travis' friend half remembers is the peytral that they found there. A leather band with the lower half cut into strips which would provide some protection plus a decorative element for the front of a horse. Anyway my exhibition of paintings will be on display soon at Vindolanda so I will go and have another look.

Graham.

[claudia crisis]

I wondered if perhaps you were referring to this find from Carlisle:

http://www.roman.org.uk/shoulder.htm

reconstructed here as part of the shoulder protection of a subarmalis.

I still have my doubts on this use though.
It looks pretty enough, but nothing to back up the reconstruction other than that!
Might be like reconstructing a toilet flush as a high staus piece of jewellery & walking about with it proudly displayed around your neck.

However, I dont doubt that they would have used some type of undergarment to stop the lorica ripping them to bits, and they probably did put some extra support at the shoulders.

Sadly, it probably is a bit of saddle - they found lots of other bits of saddle there since.

Never mind, the poor boy seems happy enough with it - blissful ignorance - lets not bother with "can it be proven?" or "is it authentic?".

Hilary

[tlclark]

However I wonder whether what Travis' friend half remembers is the peytral that they found there. A leather band with the lower half cut into strips which would provide some protection plus a decorative element for the front of a horse. Anyway my exhibition of paintings will be on display soon at Vindolanda so I will go and have another look.

Graham.

Thanks Graham.

I strongly suspect my friend's memory is suspect, though I sincerely wish it to be true. Either that or it is an inaccurate reconstruction as Claudia suggests.

Travis

[tlclark]

Update:

Got the catalog of the exhibition from the Bryn Mawr library. It doesn't appear that anyone has an image or description of the thing my friend swears on his dead mother was there.

I think he must be confusing a balteus or something else with a pteruges.

I've hit a dead end.

Any suggestions?

[Tarbicus]

I've hit a dead end.

Any suggestions?

Lie and pretend. :wink:

[tlclark]

I've hit a dead end.

Any suggestions?

Lie and pretend. :wink:

I do enough of that with my dissertation. :roll: