Army Ranks

[M.ilionario]

Can anyone please make a DETAILED explanation about how roman soldiers (Republicans and Imperials) climbed in the ranks of the army?
I think that republicans often kept the equipment of the men they killed......but who knew who had killed who?
In the empire it was all about skill, right? Then who knew which soldiers were brave or skilled in battle? the officers that needed to pay attention to the battle? I don't think so.....
This question has always haunted me, even regarding modern armies........come on, no-one will be concerned about who fights better, all he will think is keep alive and follow (or give) orders.

[Tarbicus]

They could become emperor, but that would be a few in millions.

Is your local public library any good?

[Jona Lendering]

I think you may like the book by Yann le Bohec (L' Armée Romaine sous le Haut-Empire; there is an English translation), which offers lots of information on, for example, promotion of soldiers from the rank and file to the rank of centurion, and from centurion to emperor (which happened to Publius Helvius Pertinax; more...). There were many possibilities; so a reply in this thread is impossible.

I think that republicans often kept the equipment of the men they killed......but who knew who had killed who?

I do not know about Roman practice, but in Greece, the looting started immediately, because the bodies had to be stripped before the rigor mortis started. All weapons and armor were thrown together, and divided. In a phalanx, everyone new which warrior had killed an enemy. I suppose the Romans did the same.

[M.ilionario]

Is your local public library any good?

No

They could become emperor, but that would be a few in millions.

I was asking how and not the limit....

[Tarbicus]

I was asking how and not the limit....

link from old RAT

[M.ilionario]

Which book do you think would be better about this topic?

[Jona Lendering]

Is your local public library any good?

No

Every library is connected to a system of borrowing from other libraries. Check RAT's "indispensable booklist" and ask for these books. It will cost only a few euro's, and after that, the xerox is yours.

They could become emperor, but that would be a few in millions.

I was asking how and not the limit....

The key is political connections. Powerful friends. The way to make friends - I still haven't find out in my life. I suspect that in our own age, the incompetent make up for their lack of quality by creating networks of friends; or the other way round, because they are too occupied with their friendships, they can not become competent. Anyhow, it's a mess in our governments.

The odd thing is that when I read articles about Roman careerists, they often were capable of something: take, for instance, Agrippa, Lucius Vitellius, Pliny the Younger, Pertinax, or Macrinus. Maybe they did something better than we do; or it may be just a mirage.

Which book do you think would be better about this topic?

See above, Le Bohec is good.[/quote]

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi Francisco,
Really the only book that details it, is Von Domaszewski's Rangordnung des Römischen Heeres. If you don't feel up to that - and that would be very understandable - then Le Bohec, The Roman Imperial Army is your best bet, as Jona said.

[M.ilionario]

The key is political connections. Powerful friends.

I don't think a low ranking soldier would have any of those.... :roll:

[Jona Lendering]

The key is political connections. Powerful friends.

I don't think a low ranking soldier would have any of those.... :roll:

So the problem is how to make friends. It's no coincidence that the Romans believed that upstarts always had started their careers as prostitutes, male or female. It is being said about of, a/o, Julius Caesar, the emperor Vitellius, the empress Helena, and the empress Theodora. The accusation is not necessarily true but betrays that self-humiliation was an aspect of making powerful friends.

[Praefectusclassis]

Oh sure. Connections could be a family member/friend who was a centurio, or speculator, a praetorian, etc.

[M.ilionario]

So those that refused to humiliate themselves, had no political connections nor powerful friends but had great skill or bravery never became highly ranked......what an intelligent system.....It's always good to have well connected soldiers as high rankers, especially those with no skill at all....well I'd love to belong to an army led by unskilled men (but well connected nevertheless), that way I would be sure of both victory and survival.....who wouldn't?

[size=200:7j4lb2q6]LOL[/size]

But I want to clarify the situation: I was referring to soldiers, not officers.
Just for those of you who thought otherwise....

[Tarbicus]

Keep dong favours for, or give gifts to, your optio and centurio. Make sure you're noticed in battle. Use any connections you do have to create introductions for you in letters. Many if not most had a patron of some description, so ask a favour and owe him.

[Tarbicus]

So those that refused to humiliate themselves, had no political connections nor powerful friends but had great skill or bravery never became highly ranked......what an intelligent system.....It's always good to have well connected soldiers as high rankers, especially those with no skill at all....well I'd love to belong to an army led by unskilled men (but well connected nevertheless), that way I would be sure of both victory and survival.....who wouldn't?
[size=200foy4swb]LOL[/size]

What's so different today? Not much, you'll find out.

I need to correct you on the point about military leaders being unskilled. During the Imperial period, perhaps. But during the Republic, occasionally there were complete incompetents, but by and large they were experienced at war, it was an annual party. No man of high rank went anywhere without proving himself in battle, and had the scars to prove it. The more single combats and trophies on their walls they had the more influence they could exert.

[Praefectusclassis]

Exactly. It's best to set many conceptions about how a modern army (is supposed to) works aside when dealing with the Roman army. It looks a lot like the first 'military machine' on the one hand, but it's not in many of its aspects.