Sea sponge helmet linings

[Tarbicus]

Here we go - Aristotle's words on sponges:

http://www.greek-texts.com/library/Aris ... g/174.html

Of sponges there are three species; the first is of loose porous
texture, the second is close textured, the third, which is nicknamed
'the sponge of Achilles', is exceptionally fine and close-textured and
strong. This sponge is used as a lining to helmets and greaves, for
the purpose of deadening the sound of the blow; and this is a very
scarce species. Of the close textured sponges such as are particularly
hard and rough are nicknamed 'goats'.

[Geoffrey]

Interesting! I just wonder how they were used? Glued?

[Tarbicus]

Interesting! I just wonder how they were used? Glued?

Most likely. Fabric found on helmet interiors was glued on, but usually around the rim.

[Geoffrey]

I guess the next step now is locating a supplier of Mediterranean close textured sponges, given of course that they not on some endangered species list or something. :twisted:

[Tarbicus]

I'm wondering if 'Turkish sponge', aka 'Toilet sponge', is the critter. Aristotle points out it's a rare sponge, so the real thing might even be extinct.

[jvrjenivs]

I've visited a couple of lecutes hosted by Jona today, to promote the new magazine of Jasper, and Wim was also there. I think he'll write his examinations down here, soon, I guess.

But what he told me today was that it feel good, if the sponge is wet! otherewise you could better put a stone into your padding and get the same effects. :lol:

[Tarbicus]

But what he told me today was that it feel good, if the sponge is wet! otherewise you could better put a stone into your padding and get the same effects. :lol:

Aristotle again:

Of the close textured sponges such as are particularly
hard and rough are nicknamed 'goats'.

So could that mean the 'sponge of Achilles' is one that isn't rough and hard like most sponges, hence it's a rare one?

[Marcus Mummius]

[/quote]
Aristotle again:

Of the close textured sponges such as are particularly
hard and rough are nicknamed 'goats'.

So could that mean the 'sponge of Achilles' is one that isn't rough and hard like most sponges, hence it's a rare one?[/quote]

That's a good point. But perhaps those 'goats' are even harder than normal hard sponge. I don't know what the original words are...

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

Incidentally, this is a quite incredible use of a sponge...

"Without using the word xylosphongium, Seneca (Letters to Lucilius 70.20-21, tr. Richard M. Gummere) obviously refers to a sponge on a stick in this gruesome tale of suicide in a latrine:

For example, there was lately in a training-school for wild-beast gladiators a German, who was making ready for the morning exhibition; he withdrew in order to relieve himself, - the only thing which he was allowed to do in secret and without the presence of a guard. While so engaged, he seized the stick of wood, tipped with a sponge, which was devoted to the vilest uses [lignum id quod ad emundanda obscena adhaerente spongia positum], and stuffed it, just as it was, down his throat; thus he blocked up his windpipe, and choked the breath from his body. That was truly to insult death! Yes, indeed; it was not a very elegant or becoming way to die; but what is more foolish than to be over-nice about dying?

What a brave fellow! He surely deserved to be allowed to choose his fate! How bravely he would have wielded a sword! With what courage he would have hurled himself into the depths of the sea, or down a precipice! Cut off from resources on every hand, he yet found a way to furnish himself with death, and with a weapon for death. Hence you can understand that nothing but the will need postpone death. Let each man judge the deed of this most zealous fellow as he likes, provided we agree on this point, - that the foulest death is preferable to the fairest slavery."

Balls or fear of combat?

Valete,

[Geoffrey]

Ouch!! hock:

[pvblivs cordvs]

As promised my results of field testing a sponge in my helmet.
As Jurjen already stated I've tried it dry and damp.
For the test I used a regular natural bathing sponge.
No idea of the type or species. Just took a bit from what we have in stock for making sponge-sticks.
It a rather open type anyway.

Dry it is like putting a rock on your head and wearing a helmet over it.
Gave me a headache in no-time flat. Not a good idea and no value as padding whatsoever.
Slightly wet was a different story all together.
It became quite comfortable actually, especially in the rather warm weather we had here Easter-weekend.
Where my normal wool padding turns to the felt very fast in warm weather due to sweat and friction the sponge kept its shape and kept my head cool.
I was a bit concerned about rust on the inside of my helmet but the effect is negligible.
On the other hand I can imagine that standing watch at night in a cold area it is not a good idea to have something wet and cold inside an iron helmet. Your hair will probably freeze right off !
So I'm not on all points convinced it worked all the time but I do know that next time I find myself doing a show in the heat of a summer sun, there will be a damp sponge inside my helmet.
So taken into consideration we are talking Mediterranean here and not Scotland the result is -to use a Mythbuster-term - at least Plausible.
Cheers guys,
Wim/Cordvs

[Tarbicus]

Brilliant, thanks Wim! Laudes

Given it's mentioned by Aristotle originally, in a Greek context presumably, it all makes sense given the usual campaign seasons being in summer. I'm still intrigued to find out if there's a species that is soft when dry, as it seems to be a different type to the rough and hard 'Goats'?

[Primvs Pavlvs]

I have contemplated adding raw wool to my helmet and wearing it to see if it would form a form fitted felt liner thats removable.

[pvblivs cordvs]

Hi,
I wonder if that would work.
You need quite a bit of wool to make a cap.
And allthough wool turns to felt in a helmet it also "shrinks" in size.
I expect it won't work by natural process.
I'll see if I can dig up a picture of myself wearing the cap without my helmet covering it.
Cheers,
Cordvs/Wim.

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

I'm still intrigued to find out if there's a species that is soft when dry,

Absolutely yes, I remember, when I was a kid, that in my parents' bathroom there was a very very soft (on the skin) and even if dry, natural sponge. The natural beauty shops has to know what kind of sponge it is...

Valete,