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Frontiers of the Roman Empire
#1
I stumbled acros this one today, a series of documentaries about the Roman Limes in several languages.
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Robert Vermaat
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FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#2
Thanks Robert....now you have me wanting to go to Slovakia.... :lol:
That was an interesting piece, with some tantalising information.
I wonder what the evidence of Tiberius occupying that promentory is.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#3
Quote:I stumbled acros this one today, a series of documentaries about the Roman Limes in several languages.

Nice to see Da'janiya on the Jordanian one - once spent a night hiding from wild dogs there whilst trying to survey it!

Some (if not all) of these videos have been knocking around on DVD for ages as part of the attempt to get the whole frontier system inscribed as a World Heritage Site and there was a point where I kept getting these freebies drop out of everything I opened. Although there are apparently problems with the concept of a trans-national WHS the drive is still on to inscribe the component parts separately - Croatia had some bumf about their own section of the frontier whilst we were there for ROMEC.

Mike Bishop
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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#4
Pen & Sword will be publishing a new book on Roman Frontiers by Professor David Breeze (who led the succesful bid to get the Antonine Wall declared a UNESCO world heritage sight). It is written and currently in editing/production, due out early 2011.

Phil Sidnell
Commissioning Editor
Pen & Sword Books
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#5
Where we might discuss Roman frontiers I still wait for the day when Archaeologists will pay just a little more attention to the pre-Hadrianic one that was discovered by the late Raymond Selkirk.
This is the one that crosses Hadrians' Wall at an oblique angle and links Maryport in Cumbria on the west coast with Whitley Bay on the east coast some 5 miles north of Segedunum.
It was given the name of the 255 degree line by Raymond Selkirk when he discovered that it appears to have forts every Roman mile along it's length from coast to coast. The name 255 degrees is the compass heading it takes across the country, and if anyone were to take up more study of it we may just have a better understanding about the withdrawal from Scotland at the end of the first century, indeed it may even re-write the Roman history of northern Britain and explain just why Hadrian had to come along and simply swing it around on it's pivot point to create his frontier that we have today.
Brian Stobbs
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#6
Quote:I still wait for the day when Archaeologists will pay just a little more attention to the pre-Hadrianic one that was discovered by the late Raymond Selkirk. This is the one that crosses Hadrians' Wall at an oblique angle and links Maryport in Cumbria on the west coast with Whitley Bay on the east coast some 5 miles north of Segedunum. It was given the name of the 255 degree line by Raymond Selkirk when he discovered that it appears to have forts every Roman mile along it's length from coast to coast. The name 255 degrees is the compass heading it takes across the country, and if anyone were to take up more study of it we may just have a better understanding about the withdrawal from Scotland at the end of the first century, indeed it may even re-write the Roman history of northern Britain and explain just why Hadrian had to come along and simply swing it around on it's pivot point to create his frontier that we have today.
You have mentioned this a few times over the years, Brian (e.g. here, here, here, here, here, here, ...). I once tried to obtain a copy of Selkirk's original article, published in CBA North News Bulletin for January 1989, but Cumbria County Council wanted £10 to compensate them for the inconvenience of sending a copy. Silly me -- I thought they were public servants. Consequently, I have never read his theory. I would hazard a guess that few outside of Cumbria have. But it seems an odd heading for a frontier to take. Maybe it's a road?
posted by Duncan B Campbell
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#7
Duncan
I don't know if you are fully aware of all the work that Raymond Selkirk was into, but his most interesting subject was the logistics of supply in the Roman world hence his revelations with regard to Roman river transport.

However he began to follow up on much of the work and indeed comments made by many 18th / 19th century antiquarians, then one day he was messing around with some old maps figures and statements that had been made about some local Romano British settlements.
Then being a Navigator he made some of his own measurements and discovered that many of these sites began to come together in a line over the country, in fact one particular fort along his line had already been written about by Camden and Horsley. It is not one of the mile fortlets but a larger fort thrown into this line in the same manner as the Forts later put in on Hadrians' Wall, then it worked out that this line he determined goes right on thro' Hexham Abbey under which was the home of the Ala Petriana.
Then other forts and fortlets begin to show themselves as we go west on this heading of 255 degrees, in fact the heading one finds on leaving Newcastle Airport with just one of these fortlets a quarter of a mile from the Airport western approach.

Indeed if we consider what Hadrian did by rotating this line he moved his line north of the Irthing river and gave the western half of his wall a river supply system, with two sets of bargemen at either end I forget the one at Bowness however the Baccarii Tigrinensis were in the east.
Brian Stobbs
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#8
I wondered about this too, since Brian has raised the issue quite often.

Quote:Then other forts and fortlets begin to show themselves as we go west on this heading of 255 degrees, in fact the heading one finds on leaving Newcastle Airport with just one of these fortlets a quarter of a mile from the Airport western approach.

Do you mean that this line ran straight across country from Maryport, then, following the compass heading? That seems odd, as it would leave the south shore of the Solway firth outside the frontier - surely an obvious defensible border?

- Nathan
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#9
Nathan.

This line of frontier does in fact run from the east just north of Whitley Bay on a heading of 255 degrees and may appear to leave the south bank of the Solway outside the Roman frontier, but this is not so for the earlier frontier of the Stanegate closely follows the south bank of the river Irthing and also the south side of the Eden as it's Limas all the way to Bowness.

Things of course changed after the known disaster in around 117 AD to 119 AD when Hadrian decided to put his wall to the north of the Irthing giving his western supply route and as we know he also carried shore defences down the Cumbrian coast to Maryport.
Brian Stobbs
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#10
Quote:This line of frontier does in fact run from the east just north of Whitley Bay on a heading of 255 degrees and may appear to leave the south bank of the Solway outside the Roman frontier, but this is not so for the earlier frontier of the Stanegate closely follows the south bank of the river Irthing and also the south side of the Eden as it's Limas all the way to Bowness.

Things of course changed after the known disaster in around 117 AD to 119 AD...

I'm a bit confused about this - if the Stanegate predated this line, and lay to the north of it, does Prof Selkirk's theory propose that the Stanegate itself was abandoned at some point (as it lay outside this new frontier)? If not, then surely the Stanegate itself would be the frontier, and these forts or roads in its hinterland just a sort of supply network, perhaps?

I think we discussed the known-or-otherwise quality of the 117-119 period elsewhere - but we can at least agree that Hadrian had some reason for building his wall! :wink:

Back on topic, meanwhile:

Quote:I stumbled acros this one today, a series of documentaries about the Roman Limes in several languages.

They are very nice documentaries, and curiously relaxing to watch! The rather sedate (English) narration is a pleasant change from the usual bombastic voiceover in TV documentaries about the 'ancient world' Smile

- Nathan
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#11
Nathan.
It is indeed another frontier with evidence of forts coast to coast maybe dating to the time of Trajan, and in fact most supply routes where along waterways.
Anyway like you say back to topic and I have to agree those documentaries are very nice indeed, could watch and enjoy them over and over even though I only live less than a half hour drive from Hadrians' Wall.
Brian Stobbs
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#12
Wow, thanks for that youtube link, Robert! This is one of my main research interests, so I always like to take in anything I can get. Cheers!
"...atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant."

????? ???? ?\' ?????...(J. Feicht)
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