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Show here your Byzantine warrior impression
#46
Is there much Byzantine reenactment in Greece or is it all Classical period there? If at all?
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Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#47
Hi Robert,

There is massive Byzantine reenactment in Greece, each religious litany is actually a representation of Byzantine army of 10th century AC... :roll: Confusedhock: (un-armed and feminine representation, but still reenactment....)


Apart of this type of reenactment, there are a couple of serious Associations that focus on Ancient Greek era and can present a critical mass of members.

Our Association (KORYVANTES) can present military technology from 12th to 3rd century BC. In collaboration with our brother Association (Centaur Archers), we have already presented late Byzantine and we plan to present post-Byzantine Stradioti warriors

There is also the LEONIDAS Association, good friends that focus in Classical era
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
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#48
Quote:Ave Caesar :-)

I am not in any fotos of the Byzantine armor. The one that Stefanos first mentioned (A better view of Dimitris' Masterpiece worn by his distinguished client) belongs to an Italian reenactor.

I have plans to built a Byzantine armor for me, since my family heritage is found in the Stradioti Units, as deployed by Venice just before the collapse of Byzantine Empire

Spyros, who wear the strange cyclic armor of St Mercurios in the Turkish Archery Tournament, is the president of KORYVANTES Association

INTERESTING. Do you know from where incidentally? e.g local to Greece or from Italy or central Europe? That's pretty hardcore, incidentally.

EDIT: Superfluous edit, thought it was different thread. How did that happen!?
Jass
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#49
Quote: Hi Robert,
There is massive Byzantine reenactment in Greece, each religious litany is actually a representation of Byzantine army of 10th century AC... :roll: Confusedhock: (un-armed and feminine representation, but still reenactment....)
:wink:
I disagree - it's only re-enactment when one intents to show someone or some thing from the past. I'm sure the modern religieux do mnot mean to be seen as reenactors! Big Grin

Quote:Apart of this type of reenactment, there are a couple of serious Associations that focus on Ancient Greek era and can present a critical mass of members.

Our Association (KORYVANTES) can present military technology from 12th to 3rd century BC. In collaboration with our brother Association (Centaur Archers), we have already presented late Byzantine and we plan to present post-Byzantine Stradioti warriors

There is also the LEONIDAS Association, good friends that focus in Classical era

So the 4th to 10th centuries are also reenacted in Greece?
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#50
Quote:Ave Caesar :-)

INTERESTING. Do you know from where incidentally? e.g local to Greece or from Italy or central Europe? That's pretty hardcore, incidentally.

Hi,

my Grandmother's family (Suli) was established in the island of Zante in 15th century. They received nobility status and land from Venice. According to sources, before moving to Zante, they were cavalry officers in the Despotate of Epirus employed by Venicians.

They continued to fight for Venice, their name appear in the list of Stradioti leaders of 16th century (Giogni Suli)

http://greek-lastnames.blogspot.gr/2012/...ti-16.html

The brother Association of Centaur Archers has been founded also by a friend that his ancestor name appear in the same list (Guma Galengi)
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
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#51
First of all,
Here is the source for the armor reconstruction. (Image of St Theodore)


[attachment=4306]peirama1.jpg[/attachment]


Second,
This was the first successful Greek effort in Byzantine reenactment covering loosely 8th to 15th centuries.

Depending of the availability of funds ( :evil: ) we plan to recreate more extended timelines. Our armorer has demonstrated ability to reconstruct almost anything!

4th century debatable but Constatine is an interesting personality to many.
The 7th century with Heraclius is a temptation but the 10th with "uncle Basil II" thats a must.

Must win the LOTTO to reconstruct the cataphracts though :twisted: :twisted:

Mind you, initially we thought only Antiquity but ain't History of various periods fun?

I an leading our president to weird paths - even attempting to re-enact Hellenic Sacred Band of 1821
http://rethemnosnews.gr/wp-content/uploa...-loxos.jpg
http://www.sansimera.gr/media/photos/mai...atsani.jpg


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#52
This is magnificent. I recently saw you and others on a clip from a Turkish TV show demnstrating Byzantine archery. Ottoman v Byzantine How nice to see Greeks and Turks working on comparative historical reconstruction together. As I understand, this 'mirror armour' has some interesting properties - ie when struck it tends to act like a spring and deflects weapon strikes well. When is the earliest we see this type of armour in art? I guess by the look of the fresco about mid 13th to 14th C.
Peter Raftos
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#53
Sorry Stefanos, I meant Antonis in the armour. DOH! I think Dimitri has really pulled a rabbit out of a hat. Great to see that experimental archeology seems to support the notion that when it comes to military technoolgy Byzantine artists are often capturing the reality.

Antonis,how des the armour feel to wear? It looks comfortable.
Peter Raftos
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#54
Actually is Spyros Bakas in the "mirror armor" - President of the Koryvantes and member of the Horsearchers executive board.

The archers did static and mobile archery and a "hunting event" in the hot blazing meditteranean sun. None expressed discomfort. The team got 2 metals and a cup during the event. They shot in their armor with no hindrance.

Dimitris is truly the Son of HEPHAESTUS :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Kind regards
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#55
Hi Peter,

Regarding the "mirror" armor, the only evidence we have are 3 paintings in monasteries (13 - 14th century). One in Mouth Athos, one in Epirus and one in Serbia.

The origins (cyclical shape) is definitely proto-Ottoman / Mongolian, but seems that Byzantines developed a composite "reactive" armor based on this pattern... it is true that the 4 layers of armor provide a spring-like feeling and extreme protection, compared to typical Byzantine armor.

This after a few, non-scientific :-) tests we have performed - please do notshoot :-)

The most interesting feature is how comfortable you feel with this armor. As said before, Spiros in the Turkish Archery Tournament was able to hit a 30 x30 cm target in 100 meters distance, with fast instinctive shoot

This armor was built with humble material (cheap leather, iron plates) by Dimitris, since this was one of his first attempts as an armorer. There are also a few "mistakes", that need to be corrected on next productions.

The reality is that this armor design is so unique that deserves a luxurius construction. As would be normal for a Saint-Warrior of the 14th century...
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
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#56
Hi. I know this is little off topic. NVG forum seems too closed for guests, and I didnt find topic for end of 12 century in area of Constantinople (4th crusade 1202-1204)
Advice me please, where should I find some source about byzantine warrior equipment. I have bought by Timothy Dawson several texts (byzantine infantryman, several books from levantia.com.au), but they often lack details for questions, when someone wants to reconstruct them at a particular time.
They say a lot about clothing and usual shoes. But details about their colors are puzzling. Because you can find in many sources pictures, but when you read texts, you find out, that ordinary mortal shouldnt wear them /red color restricted for high ranks, priests, nobility/. Or shoes - foot is pointed (not like in Renaissance but medieval-like) or round?
Ring mail are fine. Many talks about lamellar armor, their riveting, shape, but non say about dimensions of lamellae.
The helmets are also too mixed. Everyone say something about them, and quite a lot say about their shape. Usually typical for other nations. They say often about typical byzantine signs (shape/addon ect), but nobody specify what are they...
Swords of many shapes, with same problem as helmets. "they get sword from byzantine armory" (spathion, parameion etc) but their "typical" shape - recognition from northern/russian/arabian/turk is missing.
When they fight, they shout commands?/use drums/trumpets ect? when marching on same step, do they use instruments?...
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#57
Slavomir: find an archeologist or historian specialized in Byzantium. They will be more than eager to help. We do ours this way.
Kis György Márk (by western standards, György Márk Kis)

Legio Leonum Valentiniani

http://www.legioleonum.hu
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#58
Quote:It was definitely one heck of a fight! LOL! :mrgreen: Here is an another good shot of Ingvar in his Byzantine armour :grin: Thanks Gabe for your photo too!
WOW this is looking just SO gorgeous O.o
Congratulations Smile
Vinícius Alexandre Rodrigues
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#59
Here are some newer shots of my Varangian panopoly.

I like the nice shot of my lovely Norman wife, Mika and I with Sirocco, one of our salukis outside our tent at the Abbey Medieval Tournament.

I am in parade mode here and you can see some of the golden details of the armour, this is an entirely new kit from the other photo.


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Patrick Urquhart
aka Ingvar Carnifex
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#60
Nice one Patrick.
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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