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Feeding the Soldiers
#16
Quote:I found this little statement. No sources listed, unfortunately.

Quote:The staple diet of the legionary was bread, and each ten-man squad of a legion ground its own wheat to flour, then baked bread at its tent – there was no mess hall in a Roman camp.

Stephen Dando-Collins, Mark Antony’s Heroes

"...each ten-man squad of a legion ... " Really? Confusedhock:

It's no surprise you did not find any source citation for that assertion. I doubt very much that Mr. Dando-Collins could produce one, even if his life depended upon it. :-? :mad:

Narukami
David Reinke
Burbank CA
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#17
Quote:"...each ten-man squad of a legion ... " Really? Confusedhock:
It's no surprise you did not find any source citation for that assertion. I doubt very much that Mr. Dando-Collins could produce one, even if his life depended upon it. :-? :mad:
Actually he could - it's in Vegetius I think. No idea where Vegetius got it from, plus I think he's dead wrong, but he mentioned it nontheless.
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Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#18
Ah so ...

Thank you for the correction Robert.

Is it possible that Vegetius was speaking of a Army TO&E for his own time period rather than that of the Republic or Principate?

The main point of the passage, that the legionaries cooked their own meals, seems well established, but mention of a ten-man 'squad' seems odd given all we know about the post-Marian Legions which are surely the object under discussion in a book titled: Mark Antony's Heroes.

Anyway, just struck me as odd. Thanks again.

The more I read about ancient Rome the more I realize that I need to read more.

:wink:

Narukami
David Reinke
Burbank CA
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#19
Quote:I doubt very much that Mr. Dando-Collins could produce one, even if his life depended upon it.
I think you are probably right, David. Mr Dando-Collins doesn't seem to know his army from his elbow. :wink:
posted by Duncan B Campbell
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#20
Hi

Bread ovens were located around the ramparts and in the legionary fortress at Chester there were also some buildings built nearby into the rampart. They were large enough to accommodate approximately 40 men. It is possible half a century would eat their rations there. Equally food may have been prepared elsewhere and then taken back to the barracks after all 'takeaways' were a normal feature of everyday Roman city life.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#21
Quote:The main point of the passage, that the legionaries cooked their own meals, seems well established, but mention of a ten-man 'squad' seems odd given all we know about the post-Marian Legions which are surely the object under discussion in a book titled: Mark Antony's Heroes.
Just to confuse the issue, Varro states that the proper number of men in a century is one hundred (de ling. lat., 5.88), which could give ten contubernia of ten men each. Is he speaking theoretically or from his own military experience, having served with Pompey in Spain against Sertorius and in the Civil War?
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#22
Hi Narukami,

Not meant as a correction.. :wink:

Quote:Is it possible that Vegetius was speaking of a Army TO&E for his own time period rather than that of the Republic or Principate?
Bit of both perhaps. Leaving dano-Collins aside, I doubt that Vegetius ever saw a Roman army either, he's very much the 'armchair-tactician'. :mrgreen: I can't recall if a centurio ever commanded exactly 100 men, but Vegetius does make a mistake when he invents the 'ducentenarius' (leader of 200), a mistake for the 'ducenarius'. Vegetius may have, likewise, seen the 'decanus' as a leader of a 10-men squad, which he perhaps came across in much earlier treatises.
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#23
Quote:Vegetius does make a mistake when he invents the 'ducentenarius' (leader of 200), a mistake for the 'ducenarius'.
Really? Not in Lang, Stelton, Önnerfors or Reeve.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#24
Quote:... when he invents the 'ducentenarius' (leader of 200), a mistake for the 'ducenarius'.
I think Vegetius' mistake is in assuming that there was a unit of 200 men requiring a commander. From at least the time of Claudius, ducenarius indicated a procurator who was "paid 200" (i.e. 200 sesterces per annum).
posted by Duncan B Campbell
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#25
Quote:
Robert Vermaat post=311434 Wrote:Vegetius does make a mistake when he invents the 'ducentenarius' (leader of 200), a mistake for the 'ducenarius'.
Really? Not in Lang, Stelton, Önnerfors or Reeve.
Quote:
Robert Vermaat post=311434 Wrote:... when he invents the 'ducentenarius' (leader of 200), a mistake for the 'ducenarius'.
I think Vegetius' mistake is in assuming that there was a unit of 200 men requiring a commander. From at least the time of Claudius, ducenarius indicated a procurator who was "paid 200" (i.e. 200 sesterces per annum).
You're both right, I was wrong. :? Indeed, Vegetius never used the rank of 'ducentenarius', but he assumed that the ducenarius commanded 200 men. The ducentenarius was a modern assumption as possibly lying behind that thought. A ducentenarius as commander of 200 men did exist, but not in Roman times - Bede is the first to mention it.
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#26
Quote:I think Vegetius' mistake is in assuming that there was a unit of 200 men requiring a commander. From at least the time of Claudius, ducenarius indicated a procurator who was "paid 200" (i.e. 200 sesterces per annum).
What do you make of the military ducentarii that do exist?

EDIT: I mean ducenarii, of course.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
Reply
#27
Sounds like the perfect rank for command of a double century.

Quote:
Robert Vermaat post=311434 Wrote:... when he invents the 'ducentenarius' (leader of 200), a mistake for the 'ducenarius'.
I think Vegetius' mistake is in assuming that there was a unit of 200 men requiring a commander. From at least the time of Claudius, ducenarius indicated a procurator who was "paid 200" (i.e. 200 sesterces per annum).
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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