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AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs Presentation discussion
#16
Yes, I took this out of the presentation thread, for in fact it is not allowed to post in the presentation threads unless you are the nominee.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

[Image: BannerAER-1-1.jpg]
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#17
Quote:Yes, I took this out of the presentation thread, for in fact it is not allowed to post in the presentation threads unless you are the nominee.

OK 8)
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#18
My two asses:

Caius is right, there are terms and conventions in standard use in archaeological circles. If the terms are to have any meaning we have to defend their meaning diligently.

However, if the goal is to sponsor more accurate pieces of armor, and more accurate re-enacting than the following items (or impressions that include them) cannot ever rationally be considered for the Hasta Pura on the grounds of incomplete/inconclusive data:

Lorica Musculata
subarmalis
pteruges
Focale
The leather satchel
braccae/Feminalia
Several aspects of segmentata, hamata
etc. etc. etc.

I'm sure others could add others.

In fact, if you wanted to, you could nitpick any impression...
We all have to accept conjecture at some point.

And then there are all the difficulties of accidental survivals. Are the objects for which we have the most evidence atypical or anomalous? The art is sometimes at such variance with the evidence that we have to run on one of two assumptions. Either the art is untrustworthy, or the example is anomalous. If it's anomalous what's the virtue of a hasta pura? And everyone here knows my opinions on this matter.

It's the age old dilemna of western epistemology. You base knowledge not merely on what can be known, but on what you can demonstrate. But given an imperfect data set, there are many things which may be true, but can not be demonstrated.

Fortunately archaeology is not a hard science and we have to conjecture or we'd all sit around doing nothing.

I understand the need to make the hasta pura an award for specific reproductions of existing artifacts.

I think that a seperate award for the best reasonable conjecture of a specific item, holding to rules of what can be demonstrated.

This attic explicit and conscientiously tries to emulate the best examples of Roman iconology. Can it be verified? No. but then a lot of stuff simply can't be verified.

I think another award is warranted, but then, to make that worth any more than a "HEY THAT'S COOL!" award, there need to be rules on what will and will not be acceptable. I suppose that that's why there isn't an award like this already. It relies too much on judgment, whereas if the object looks like the original, it looks like the original, making an hasta pura so much easier to award.

Still with the expertise on this board, it seems a plausible alternative.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
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Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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#19
I think the leather satchel would qualify because of the Commachio finds beautifully rebuilt (with patient instructions) by Martin M? Not much conjecture needed there- just hard work and craftsmanship?
[Image: wip2_r1_c1-1-1.jpg] [Image: Comitatuslogo3.jpg]


aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
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#20
Quote:And then there are all the difficulties of accidental survivals. Are the objects for which we have the most evidence atypical or anomalous? The art is sometimes at such variance with the evidence that we have to run on one of two assumptions. Either the art is untrustworthy, or the example is anomalous. If it's anomalous what's the virtue of a hasta pura? And everyone here knows my opinions on this matter.

The point is that it would still be a reconstruction of something we are 100% sure existed.

An extra award for things that are faithfully based on any other source than archaeological sources would be a good idea. But like you said, it should follow these other sources closely.
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
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#21
Quote:My two asses
You should see a doctor about that.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#22
Quote:
tlclark:1n7mw6dk Wrote:My two asses
You should see a doctor about that.

I need an extra one for the spank-o-matic. Big Grin
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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#23
Now is that like The Man with Three Buttocks? Or is it a fully 4-Cheeker? :lol:
See FABRICA ROMANORVM Recreations in the Marketplace for custom helmets, armour, swords and more!
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#24
Just to show everyone what a Republican Attic looks like :

[Image: attic_samnite.jpg]

To me it looks like an ancestor to the ones depicted on much later friezes.

~Theo
~~~~~jaime~~~~~~
Fathers of the Church
[Image: CRShield02.png]
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#25
I'm gonna go with the 4 cheeks
Dennis Flynn
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