+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Roman Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence (/showthread.php?tid=11497)
Pages:
1
2
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - Dan Howard - 01-20-2008
Quote:Could the skulls have been attached to a live animal at the time? Moving target practice?This is the most likely scenario given Roman sentiments. People constanty try to project our own values onto ancient cultures and it simply can't be done. Legionaries would have thought nothing of using live animals for target practice. In the above test, unless you use live bone the test will be flawed. Dead bone will not produce meaningful results. A far more moral solution is to find a material that simulates live bone.
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - M. Demetrius - 01-20-2008
Then they had dinner, and some sheepskin to stuff into their subarmalis, or to put under the bedroll.
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - Marcus Julius - 01-21-2008
M. Demetrius\\n[quote]... but the primary purpose was to penetrate the guy holding the shield, with or without hitting the wood first....
I should think that a Roman line soldier could hit a target the size of a skull from his normal throwing distance almost every time. It's what kept him alive. quote]Indeed, I would agree - in practice.
In my time with the military, and now with law enforcement, I see guys who could and can consistantly nail small groups concentrated on the bullseye of a paper target at "standard engagement" range, In practice. Then, when put under the stresses of time, moving targets, etc. they don't perform quite as well. Now raise those stress levels a little higher, in live combat, and the average gunslinger drops to barely better than 10% even hitting the target.
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - Nerva - 01-21-2008
Ok, the skulls were Sheep skulls, don't know how long they we're dead but luckily the sheep were not attached.
As for the consistency of skull, we'll that something I can talk at length on. When I was a lad I had a job doing all the dirty jobs around an abettor (slaughter house). when 'alive', cow and sheep skull is hard but flexible. When hit with a cleaver it will absorb quite a lot of the energy from the impact, but will split. If you drive a sharp pole into it, it may also split, but more often than not it won't, just leave a hole.
Now if you use a ram gun, it will not always split apart but you will always get cracks running out from the point. Now this is consistent with what Alan and Tom report.
As for throwing accuracy, when you've 5,000 lads chucking them at more or less the same time, I hardly think it counts :wink:
Now let me tell you all the story about the exploding cow. You see we had this cow that had died one night. when we started work in the morning it's digestive gasses had expanded the thing to about three times it's original size. We desperately needed to diffuse the beast before it bloody exploded, but how would we do it? Just then one of the lads said 'Oh look Martivs, there's you Pilum over there"...
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - M. Demetrius - 01-21-2008
Ick. Don't go any further. :mrgreen:
How long did it take to clean up and deodorize the pilum?
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - Nerva - 01-21-2008
The Pilum? Oh, we never found that afterwards... :oops:
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - Sean Manning - 01-21-2008
Quote:Could the skulls have been attached to a live animal at the time? Moving target practice?Some cultures definitely used live animals for target practice (the Japanese and Central Asian nomads spring to mind). So I agree that the Romans might have well done so if they wanted to show new recruits what their weapons could do to a living target.
Re: Pilum versus Ballista - Skull Evidence - Nerva - 01-21-2008
We tend to use Celts. We used to use sheep but we found local Celts were much more maneuverable and provided a much more realistic target. We still use the sheep mind you, but that's another story... :oops: