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+--- Thread: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed (/showthread.php?tid=12365)
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
I can understand what your project is Yuri and of course as you rightly point out, the absoloute nitty gritty about every trowel mark or excavation bucket is niether here nor there its the overall picture of the Pons Aelius you wish to present.....I do have to say however that I am now interested in what Mr. Campbell has put forward from the Archaeologia Aeliana, I must point out that I have to use the formal for I have no idea what the D or B are in his name. I still must say it is strange for a complete about turn on the bridge where abouts, even after the late R C Bosanquet was involved with the insciptions mentioned.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - D B Campbell - 04-16-2008
Quote:I still must say it is strange for a complete about turn on the bridge where abouts, even after the late R C Bosanquet was involved with the insciptions mentioned.The inscriptions are not terribly relevant. They were dredged from the river, and the suggestion was made that they had fallen from a bridge. I suppose we should consider the possibility that they might not have. :?:
But I'd recommend consulting the works mentioned above re. Hadrian's Wall bridges.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
It has been pointed out in "The Roman Wall" J Collingwood Bruce edited by Ian A. Richmond, that the Vallum was not traced east of mile castle 5. as the fort sits between 4 and 5 will it ever be found? I should think not for there are so many deep foundations of City buildings around the area........I shall take a look at google earth for you Yuri, and in that way I shall be able to estimate just how far the fort sits behind the Wall. I would also think that the A D 213 is a probable not a positive, well "is thought to be" in most cases turns out to be a maybe.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
I have indeed a copy of "Bridges of The Tyne" by Bidwell and Holbrook and as I have mentioned in an earlier post some where. There are some who are unaware of their arms from their elbow, however this is in reference to a Roman Dam on the river Tyne found by the late Raymond Selkirk and decried by the two afore mentioned.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-16-2008
As per our discussion.......
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - D B Campbell - 04-16-2008
Quote:It has been pointed out in "The Roman Wall" J Collingwood Bruce edited by Ian A. Richmond, that the Vallum was not traced east of mile castle 5.That's still true today (although MC5 has never been found, either!)
Quote:as the fort sits between 4 and 5 will it ever be found? I should think not for there are so many deep foundations of City buildings around the area........The real problem's the Castle Keep -- the medieval builders (as so often elsewhere) obviously selected the Roman fort as the best site.
(btw Newcastle's between MC3 and MC4.)
Quote:I would also think that the A D 213 is a probable not a positive, well "is thought to be" in most cases turns out to be a maybe.You're right -- It's not a building inscription, so it can only ever provide a possibility, not a certainty.
But (apparently) coin finds from the city start in the AD 270s.
Re. the fort: Hopefully, someone can lay their hands on Arch. Ael. 31 (2002)!
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
That is correct Byron, but itis most certainly there.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
Mile castle 5 (Quarry House)stood at the junction Westgate Road and Corporation Street It's position falls at just a Roman mile from the abutment of Hadrians' bridge. Mile castle 6 must have been at Benwell Grove, but no remains of it are recorded. Therefore the Pons Aelius fort has to be between 4 and 5, and then of course my reference of 4 to 5 was with regard to the Vallum which may never be found. I would of course agree until documents in the Arch Ael are studied there is much more to be understood.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 04-16-2008
Quote:Mile castle 5 (Quarry House)stood at the junction Westgate Road and Corporation Street It's position falls at just a Roman mile from the abutment of Hadrians' bridge. Mile castle 6 must have been at Benwell Grove, but no remains of it are recorded. Therefore the Pons Aelius fort has to be between 4 and 5, and then of course my reference of 4 to 5 was with regard to the Vallum which may never be found. I would of course agree until documents in the Arch Ael are studied there is much more to be understood.
Actually, I do remember reading somewhere (maybe roman-britain.org) that a milecastle had been found at newcastle. ANybody else know of this?
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
In answer to Steve yes the Wall did go down to the river, but this was at Wallsend where it leaves the South East corner of this fort. This is also an interesting subject for it may have become a Dam going over the river to the fort of Danum.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - D B Campbell - 04-16-2008
Quote:Mile castle 5 (Quarry House)stood at the junction Westgate Road and Corporation Street It's position falls at just a Roman mile from the abutment of Hadrians' bridge.I see where we are at odds.
The milecastles in this sector were re-assessed in the 1980s, with the discovery of a new milecastle in an unexpected location.
The new milecastle, now called MC 4 (Westgate Road), lies some way west of the position suggested on the OS map. In effect, instead of being east of the fort at Newcastle, it is west of the fort.
Hence our confusion (and the reason I wrote that the fort lay between MC3 and MC4).
Quote:Mile castle 6 must have been at Benwell Grove, but no remains of it are recorded. Therefore the Pons Aelius fort has to be between 4 and 5, and then of course my reference of 4 to 5 was with regard to the Vallum which may never be found.Actually, 3 and 4, by the "new" (20 years old, now) numbering.
Quote:The forts general wereabouts are known, so we can make a guesstimate as to the area of the ramparts.My perseverance has paid off. I have finally unearthed a plan of the Newcastle fort (attached below).
(I think you'll now realise the reason for my pessimism regarding a reconstruction!)
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-16-2008
Seems to be a little buried.....
roll:
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-16-2008
Things do appear to be a bit complicated and the unusual situation about mile castles, this may well come from the information that the intervals of the first 3 are 1,443 1,453 and 1,420 yrds apart respectively.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - D B Campbell - 04-16-2008
Quote:I shall take a look at google earth for you Yuri, and in that way I shall be able to estimate just how far the fort sits behind the Wall.Mike Bishop has helpfully posted a Google Earth view of the Newcastle fort (site of) here. Bit of a mess, isn't it?
Chesters (my alternative suggestion) is much nicer!
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - D B Campbell - 04-16-2008
Quote:... at Wallsend where it leaves the South East corner of this fort. This is also an interesting subject for it may have become a Dam going over the river to the fort of Danum.Danum?! Isn't that Doncaster?
hock: