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+--- Thread: Weapons of civilians (/showthread.php?tid=15598)
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Re: Weapons of civilians - john m roberts - 01-11-2010
By ancient ritual law Romans were forbidden to "bear arms" within the pomerium - the ritual barrier marked out by Romulus with his plow, containing most of the Republican city within the walls. It was a law much honored in the breach during the late Republic, when armed gangs ran rampant and the personal retinues of dictators and military adventurers seized control of the forum and of the city at large. Incidentally, the Augustan law referenced by Jona was probably intended to suppress this very practice of magnates retaining personal armies. Anti-weapon laws in the ancient world seem generally to be for the purpose of quelling rebellion, not to regulate personal violence. In many modern Latin American countries today, it is forbidden for citizens to own firearms in military calibers, but those in sporting calibers are permitted. Rebellion is the issue, not posession of personal weapons.
Re: Weapons of civilians - Robert - 01-11-2010
I do not believe a sigle edged knife, even a large type, would class as a weapon as it has a lot of domestic uses. Now, a sword can be used for offensive or defensive purposes only. This would be classed as a weapon. A spear or pointed staff has been a recognised means of self defence thoughout many ages. That is why I opted for just the knife and the spear and left out the spatha or gladius from the impression of the merchant smith after our forum discussion. There is also a difference in what you were allowed to bear traveling and what one could take into the city walls. Knives, even large ones, have been commonplace articles of domestic use throughout the centuries.
Re: Weapons of civilians - authorscott - 01-12-2010
Thanks for your answers. The next question is, did the city guards, particularly in Constantinople, search people as they came into the city?
Re: Weapons of civilians - john m roberts - 01-12-2010
Also, be aware that the curved, single-edged sica was an "infamous" weapon under Roman law, associated with gladiators and street thugs. The straight, double-edged pugio, the weapon of soldiers, was "honorable." You might be under suspicion just for having a sica in your possession. One Roman writer, I no longer remember which, says that the sica was worn slung beneath the arm and its curved shape facilitated its being drawn from that position, apparently through the arm opening of the tunic. Gangsters and shoulder-holsters go back a long way.
Re: Weapons of civilians - ioannes sebald - 01-21-2010
Sorry to interrupt proceedings but,i was wondering,as i've been lately forced to take on a new character role,namely that of a trader within a former Romano-British fort,c 425-450 c.e,would the prohibition on weapons still have been enforced in this period or just relaxed,if the latter is the case then which "sidearm" would be the most suitable weapon of choice given that my character would have not seen any kind of Military service,i know the question looks a bit obvious but this is my first attempt at portraying a non-military role and my ignorance is,unfortunately,complete!.
Re: Weapons of civilians - D B Campbell - 01-21-2010
Quote:... would the prohibition on weapons still have been enforced in this period or just relaxedI think the general point was that there wasn't any prohibition!
Re: Weapons of civilians - john m roberts - 01-21-2010
I agree. The ancient and medieval worlds were violent eras in which people, especially outside the cities, were expected to provide their own defense. Such anti-weapon carry laws as existed obtained only within towns. In Chaucer, even the low-class Miller carries sword and buckler while on pilgrimage. Likewise Petronius's raffish travelers. Modern ideas of police protection cannot be projected onto these eras.
Re: Weapons of civilians - Robert - 01-21-2010
And there is the point that EVERYONE carried a knife, large or somewhat smaller, as a domestic utensil and a good thing to have around in a scrap. I came apon a great wooden core Roman knifescabbard (no, not dagger, single edged blade triangular cross section!) in Miks, by the way! Something I will be looking to replicate for sure.
Re: Weapons of civilians - A_Volpe - 01-21-2010
Robert -
I also think of hunting weapons like a "fishing/hunting spear", a sling, bow & arrows
I certainly agree that a small spear is a possibility to go with...until more evidence is uncovered
But, then, using a walking cane in the same vein as a quarterstaff is just as possible.
I'm sure some kind of utility knife, perhaps a small dagger is possible, too. Small, lightweight and easily carried/packed. The 'camp knife' I have from Mark Morrow, based on the Vindolanda finds and about 6" or so long, is a pretty mean looking knife on it's own, certainly it would be usable in a fight if needed, that thing is sharp!
Re: Weapons of civilians - Robert - 01-22-2010
Thanks, Dudicus,
A sling! That is a new one one, but yes, excellent idea!!
On "a trader within a former Romano-British fort,c 425-450 c.e" , I would presume he would have a largisch knife in a good, brass decorated scabbard slung to his belt and that's about it. We have a good many gravefinds form that time in Rhenen, and there are quite a few characteristic Late Roman knives in those. I posted a replica of one on RAT some time ago and recently made Jurjen a blade for his Late Roman sheath. That blade is to have has a conical, horn handle. A lot of knives of that time do seem to have conical handles, with or without the tang peened over a nut or a cap, so that would be something to look at.
Re: Weapons of civilians - ioannes sebald - 01-23-2010
Thanks Very Much Robert!,that certainly gives me a good point to start from (and believe me,i need all the help i can get concerning my new persona),incidentally,when i refered to a prohibition on weapons,i was thinking of the Lex Iulia de vi publica which,as far as i know,was still enforced to some degree during this period,at least,in urban areas.