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+--- Thread: Timeframe of L. Plumata? (/showthread.php?tid=10095)
Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Artorius Silvanus - 08-03-2007
Avete,
I'm curious, about when was the Lorica Plumata (the scale backed by mail armor) used? Is there any evidence for its use in the Late Roman period, say between 4th to 6th centuries? Or, even if there is no direct evidence (for the Late period), would it be a logical assumption that it may have been used at all?
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - martijn.wijnhoven - 08-03-2007
David,
Until yet I have only been able to trace 6 known specimens of lorica plumata (meaning here: the hybrid form of mail and minute scales) (see another post under my name).
Those that come from a datable context all seem to be from the first to the second Century AD.
Cheers,
Martijn
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Artorius Silvanus - 08-03-2007
I had a feeling it probably wasn't used much if any after the 2nd century. Ah well, looks like if I want to use it, I have to stick to 2nd century or earlier.
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Matt Lukes - 08-04-2007
And if you want to use it you'd either have to have an unbelieveable amount of patience or a good chunk of change because that stuff is crazy to make. The rings of the mail are on the order of 3.5mm in diameter, and the scales tiny too some as small as 7mm x 12mm, each connected to 4 rings of the mail. It's NOT just squamata scales wired to regular mail. For the hell of it I tried making a little bit and while the scales weren't so bad (save that I kept dropping and losing them), the mail is just HORRIBLE. Trying to punch a little hole for a rivet without splitting the metal- not a ton of fun. I can't IMAGINE doing it 30 THOUSAND times...
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Tarbicus - 08-04-2007
Quote:For the hell of it I tried making a little bit and while the scales weren't so bad (save that I kept dropping and losing them), the mail is just HORRIBLE. Trying to punch a little hole for a rivet without splitting the metal- not a ton of fun. I can't IMAGINE doing it 30 THOUSAND times...Some people just give up so easily.....
:wink:
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Artorius Silvanus - 08-04-2007
Well I was planning on making a less authentic, larger, non-riveted version to begin with, probably with rings and scales about double the original's size.
I have already experimented with a variety of sizes of the Plumata, and using 1/4" ID rings with 3/4"x1" scales seems pretty reasonable. Though I might go a bit larger just to get one completed and see how it looks and wears and if there is anything I need to do differently.
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Mummius - 08-04-2007
Quote:Well I was planning on making a less authentic, larger, non-riveted version to begin with, probably with rings and scales about double the original's size.
I have already experimented with a variety of sizes of the Plumata, and using 1/4" ID rings with 3/4"x1" scales seems pretty reasonable. Though I might go a bit larger just to get one completed and see how it looks and wears and if there is anything I need to do differently.
Why not make an authentic squamata than an unauthentic version of a plumata? :?
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Artorius Silvanus - 08-05-2007
Because I don't want to make a Squamata, and whats wrong with making a Plumata that is twic the size of the historical example, using butted and solid punched rings? Many reenactors use butted rings, and allow rings larger than normal (like Legio XX here in the US for example, they allowrings with an OD of 1/2").
It will still be fairly accurate after all. The size ratios will still be approx the same, and I won't diverge that far from the historic example, like using galvanized materials.
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Mummius - 08-05-2007
Of course you are free to do whatever you want :wink:
It's just that such a project is a huge investment in time and effort. So if something authentic can be made in the same ammount of time as something less authentic I'd go for the authentic
But this is of course only a personal opinion.I think in a few years there will be few butted shirts in use in Roman reenactment. I currently know of 4 different companies that are producing a correct Roman hamata for a good price.
Vale,
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Artorius Silvanus - 08-05-2007
Oh I agree completely with what you say. But the difference is, the time and money needed to make the riveted rings is something I don't have at the moment. Doing it riveted will add to the time, and doing it of sufficiently small size will add even more time.
Plus doing it once will give me a greater idea of how to do it better, quicker and more authentic next time.
Re: Timeframe of L. Plumata? - Marcus Mummius - 08-05-2007
I wish you the best of luck and hope you'll post pictures when you've finished it.
Do you think you'll feel like another run after you've finished that first shirt:-)?