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+--- Thread: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet (/showthread.php?tid=10326)
Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Hugh Fuller - 08-30-2007
In some of the books on the Roman Army, I have come across the statement that the use of the Attic Helmet on sculptures was an artistic convention and that this style of helmet was never really used by the Roman officer class. I note that, with the exception of the Italo-Corinthian helmet, nobody seems to have an alternative suggestion and I wonder just how late into the Principate the Italo-Corinthian helmet lasted. What are the various opinions here on these questions?
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Jeroen Pelgrom - 08-31-2007
i've also heard about the theory that the attic helmet was a guards-helmet which would be the reason why you see so many attic helmets in Rome itself. The artistic license of an attic helmet AND the tolledo helmet also made me wonder. When i was in Rome, i saw almost exclusively attic en tolledo helmets on statue's etc.
Attic helmets - Paullus Scipio - 08-31-2007
AFIK no actual examples of Attic helmets have been found. The closest thing to one is a brow-band, illustrated in Russell-Robinson's "The Armour of Imperial Rome" that might be from an Attic type or equally some other type !!
However they are prolifically shown on sculpture from, say, 80 A.D.- 120 A.D. of Praetorians etc in Rome, and provide the types commonly shown on Trajan's column which has led to the conjecture that Guards in Rome might have worn them.
Until one turns up ( and I don't mean the Toledo helmet :wink:
lol: )I think, on balance of probability, that you would have to conclude that they were not used.
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Theodosius the Great - 08-31-2007
The best artifact is this Samnite attic helmet (which dates back to the Republic of course)
![[Image: attic_samnite.jpg]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/RCasti998/attic_samnite.jpg)
~Theo
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-31-2007
What about the ones in Conolleys? true it is from the punic era, but looks a lot like the type called the attic?
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Matthew Amt - 08-31-2007
Attic helmets were all the rage in the earlier Republic, and clearly became part of the overall Hellenistic look which was THE fashion for aristocratic officers in the Late Republic and Empire. Dozens of those early helmets have been found, so they're hardly a myth! There are fewer such obvious Attic helmets from the Empire, true, but you might consider the ritzy Thielenhofen cavalry helmet, and the 2 nearly identical Italic Type A helmets from Herculaneum. VERY Attic in style!
People keep talking about depictions of Praetorians wearing Attic helmets, but all I've seen is the Louvre relief which shows several OFFICERS wearing Attic helmets. (Hmm, though I'd have to look again to be sure one of the rear-rankers might possibly be more grunt-like!) That's where most of the stereotype of Praetorians in Attic Helmets (and muscled cuirasses!) seems to come from.
Valete,
Matthew
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - john m roberts - 08-31-2007
Good to see you here, Hugh, it's about time. The feature that distinguishes the "Hollywood" Louvre relief style Attic is the diadem-like structure applied to the brow. This is found on some cavalry helmets but so far none has been found on the Italo-Attic style of helmet Theodosius posted. Many gladiatorial helmets feature a gable-like projection but this is raised from the helmet bowl itself, not applied. The diadem would have been fragile, which may account for its non-appearance. Or, of it was guard gear worn only in Rome there would be little chance of them ending up in river mud, which is where we find most of the best preserved helmets.
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Theodosius the Great - 08-31-2007
I have two photos from the Column of Marcus Aurelius that show possible depictions of Praetorian rankers. If I'm right then that would help explain why they're carrying old-fashioned Republican scuta.
Marcus Column 1, Marcus Column 2
Quote:People keep talking about depictions of Praetorians wearing Attic helmets, but all I've seen is the Louvre relief which shows several OFFICERS wearing Attic helmets. (Hmm, though I'd have to look again to be sure one of the rear-rankers might possibly be more grunt-like!)
~Theo
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - john m roberts - 08-31-2007
I almost hate to say it, but those segmentatas look amazingly like the ones in "Gladiator." Maybe the costumers were using this for inspiration? Like, maybe, they thought: "This army is commanded by Marcus Aurelius, so let's look at a monument that has Marcus Aurelius's name on it!" Maybe they weren't being as dumb as we've assumed.
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Nectanebo - 09-02-2007
What about helmets like these two:
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... uisborough
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... tml#Weiler
They look very like "Attic" helmets, as well as the helmets depicted on the reliefs.
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-02-2007
Yeah, they do, don't they. Very elaborate, like something worn in the 'big-city' probably not seeing much real warfare. Rings a bell for some reason. :wink:
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Hugh Fuller - 09-04-2007
I believe that the second of the helmets that Nectanebo shows, the one replicating the elaborate hair styling, is thought to be a cavalry helmet. Matt, isn't the first one the one to which you refer?
Thank you for the welcome, John.
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-04-2007
Yes it is! But the style is very similar to an attic style morph, at least to my eyes.....sorry if my terminology upsets anyone!
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-04-2007
Quote:I almost hate to say it, but those segmentatas look amazingly like the ones in "Gladiator." Maybe the costumers were using this for inspiration? Like, maybe, they thought: "This army is commanded by Marcus Aurelius, so let's look at a monument that has Marcus Aurelius's name on it!" Maybe they weren't being as dumb as we've assumed.
That is exactly what they did, as far as I am led to believe! Won't elaborate on that tho', give my sources away!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Re: Roman Use of the Attic Helmet - Theodosius the Great - 09-05-2007
Quote:What about helmets like these two:Yes, the first link is the helmet Matthew mentioned - the Thielenhofen cavalry helmet. Remember seeing these in Gladiator ? I have my own picture of it below (notice the etching on the browguard) :
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... uisborough
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... tml#Weiler
They look very like "Attic" helmets, as well as the helmets depicted on the reliefs.
![[Image: Cavalry_Attic_Helmet.jpg]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/RCasti998/Cavalry_Attic_Helmet.jpg)
I wish I could find the old thread that shows a modern repro of this helmet. It was silver and gold in color with a feathered crest if I'm not mistaken. I was tempted to buy it but I think it was WAY out of my price range :roll:
~Theo