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+--- Thread: Could the Spartans have been Jews? (/showthread.php?tid=10529)
Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Cassius Tullius - 09-21-2007
In 1st Machabees, Chpt 12, Verse 20; Arius King of the Spartans writes back to Onias the High Priest of the Jews that "It is found in writing concerning the Spartans and the Jews, that they are brethren and that they are of the same stock of Abraham."
Does anyone know of any ancient Greek sources that agree with the Biblical text?
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - PMBardunias - 09-21-2007
In hellenistic times there was a rush to link your people to a greek forebearer. Sparta was a common choice due to her famous past. There were Jews in Sparta at a very early date and both peoples were sometimes seen as akin due to their percieved slavish dovotion to their laws. Areus was probably more than happy to link to anyone who could provide possible financial support for the new coinage he was pumping out and his urge to seem like a hellenistic king would surely be fed by such correspondance. But there is no direct link.
That being said, the Jewish tribe of Dan may have connections with a bronze age greek ancestor and the clay masks common to Laconia sure look a lot like Phoenecian models, so some teneuos link is possible.
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Cassius Tullius - 09-21-2007
My people?
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Tarbicus - 09-21-2007
Quote:My people?Read it as "one's people...."?
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - PMBardunias - 09-21-2007
LOL, yes read it as "many diverse cultures uner the yoke of Greco-macedonian rule wished to link their origin to Greek colonists."
As I am a Jew by marriage, I could have just said Our people and covered both jews and Spartans :wink:
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 09-21-2007
Haha,so there IS at least some connection between Spartans and Jews. :lol:
But why are you refering to Spartans as your people,you pitiful Helot? :twisted:
Khaire
Giannis
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - PMBardunias - 09-21-2007
Quote:But why are you refering to Spartans as your people,you pitiful Helot?
We Helots have an old saying: "Better to plow manure for Spartiates than have your manure plowed by Athenians." :!:
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 09-21-2007
Really!Never hear by anybody then that we keep Helots enslaved!Does every Athenian hear that?
As for me,I am the Spartan proksenos here in Macedonia.And of Dorian origin :wink:
Khairete
Giannis
PS.Anyway,even if helot,you're a holly laconian after all :!:
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Cassius Tullius - 09-21-2007
I had read somewhere that it was thought that the Egyptians had a colony at one time in Greece. If that period of colonization were to have coincided with the 400 year period prior to the Exodus that would certainly be a linkage.
The shield heraldry depicting three legs joined, is that Spartan?
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Cassius Tullius - 09-21-2007
Found this website. It suggests that Egypt was a player in Greece.
http://www.philipcoppens.com/egyptgreece.html
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-21-2007
many connections in ancient times between greece and egypt, as can be seen in syle of sculpture.....trade links, religion.......so I read here and there!
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - PMBardunias - 09-21-2007
Quote:Anyway,even if helot,you're a holly laconian after all
Since there has been over 2,000 years of intermingling wihtout demarcations between those who were Spartiates, Helots, or Perioci, anyone in Laconia, and probably most of greece, has some blood from each.
Couple that to the fact that the Spartiates themselves were a mix of Dorian and Achean elements and the distinction between the groups in the Peloponnesus is slight.
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Laran - 09-21-2007
This issue was raised in Martin Bernal's 'Black Athena', one of the most controversial books ever.
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Idomeneas - 09-22-2007
there are people that suggest Greeks are of alien origin. Maybe we should check that too? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol
Re: Could the Spartans have been Jews? - Zenodoros - 09-22-2007
I remember reading about some sort of connection between the Cretans and Semites, though I'm not sure of the exact time, and what it involved exactly. I didn't really see much plausibility in it, though it's certainly an interesting possibility... and yes, it may mean I could have a little bit of Spartan heritage afterall. :lol: