RomanArmyTalk
Winter Issue Clothing - Printable Version

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Winter Issue Clothing - romanonick - 12-03-2007

With seasonal changes and postings to the colder climes of the Empire (my interest being the Hadrian's Wall end of the Empire) were there any standard procedures in the Army - particularly in the late period - governing winter 'outfitting'?
Romanonick/Nick Deacon

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Ceannt - 12-03-2007

If its is any help whaterever they could buy in the vicus, of their quatermaster i.e Longsleave tunics or from other means :wink: killing sheep and the like Big Grin

I dont know if they could trad in their Regural tunic for Cold werther gear but they mus have but something in place when they got to the north of England (it rains a lot Confusedhock:

Winter clothes - Graham Sumner - 12-03-2007

Hi

I think there has been a thread before on winter clothing.

Don't quote me on this but I have heard they were growing vines near Hadrian's Wall in Roman times, so was it so cold after all?. I know the staff of some museums up there hate the idea of the stereotypical image of the Roman soldier from Italy freezing in the British weather because it rarely snows.

From what we do know of Roman winter gear, the hooded Paenula and the rectangular Sagum were common types of cloak used by the military. Generally in colder weather the Romans simply wore more of the standard garments. For example in the Vindolanda writing tablets there are references to overcloaks and undercloaks while Augustus wore four tunics in winter. The tablets of course also mention socks and underpants.

You can find further details in my 'Roman Military Clothing' series published by Osprey.

Graham.

Winter Issue Clothing - romanonick - 12-03-2007

Thanks for the helpful info.
The shift of climates over the centuries seem to suggest, as an average, it was not only WET in this area (still the norm today!) but it also experienced colder and drier winters and warmer summers - so the extremities of temperature were wider and more noticeable - probably demanding (as you say) some level of personal initiative from the PBI!
Any additional thoughts on footwear and leggings?

Nick.

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Peroni - 12-04-2007

There's an article by Crispvs on our website...

http://www.romanarmy.net/coldweather.htm

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Tarbicus - 12-04-2007

this kind of thing's fun. Check out the bibliography here:
http://www.geo.arizona.edu/palynology/g ... lobib.html

80 BC - 110 AD Bjorc et al 1991 Warm climate Shetland Is, Antarctica
50 AD Godwin 1954 Somerset, England Bog Corduroy (wet period)
119 AD LaMarche & Hirschboeck 1984 growth supression of bristlecone pine, Etna, = cold
126-433 AD Nesje Kvamme 1991 Glacial Advance w. Norway, 1730±75, 1740±75
450-550 AD Wigley 1988 Global cooling (after Rothlisberger 1986)

Also:[url:135pjw1t]http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st279/st279.pdf[/url]
In north central England, archeologists have found the nettle ground-
bug thrived in the city of York in both Roman and Medieval times. Its typical habitat today is on stinging nettles in the much-warmer south of England.

Angela M. H. Schuster, “Wine Lover’s Guide to Ancient Britain,â€

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Gaius Julius Caesar - 12-04-2007

Would explain the description of winter hardship by Caesar! 8)

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Matthew Amt - 12-04-2007

Been to the Legio XX page on cold-weather clothing?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/coldcloth.html

I need to add a few things to it, such as simple foot wraps and leggings.

Bear in mind that most Roman soldiers were not Italian-born. They grew up in the provinces, so they'd be used to the weather and the local clothing fashions. Hard to say how much of it was "issued" in the modern sense.

Vale,

Matthew

Re: Winter clothes - Robert Vermaat - 12-04-2007

Quote:I think there has been a thread before on winter clothing..

And as usual you're right:

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... r+clothing
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... r+clothing
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... r+clothing
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... r+clothing

WINTER CLOTHES - Graham Sumner - 12-04-2007

Hi Jim

Fascinating collection of facts there Jim! I presume the hot weather was all down to those coal powered Roman bath houses and petrol eating chariots!

I remember reading an article on climate in Britain many years ago. It said it must have been warmer in England in the 13th century than it was in Tudor England based on an observation of the clothing that was worn during those times. In the earlier period it is quite skimpy whilst in the Tudor era they suddenly started wearing huge fur overcoats. (I am sure this is a cue for you to supply some pertinent pictures to illustrate this!)

However the changes can also simply be down to fashion. I am sure that if a time traveler went to any British town on a Friday or Saturday night and saw what people were wearing they would assume the weather was practically tropical! The warmest places being Newcastle and Whitley Bay in the north near Hadrian's Wall! (You probably have pictures to illustrate this too Jim!!!). It's like Gormorrah and that other place.............?

Robert, thanks for the nice illustrations of some certain books in the second thread you posted above.

Graham.

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Virilis - 12-04-2007

An interesting quote from Graham Webster`s "The Roman Imperial Army" page 204:

"In this respect civilization has regressed, since the classical method is far more healthy, bot physically and socially, and has survived in a much reduced from in the Turkish bath and can be seen better, perhaps, in the Finnish steam bath" (the Sauna)...

I can tell from experience that the sauna really gives extra boost working in the colder climates, like Hadrian`s wall, perhaps?

Re: WINTER CLOTHES - Tarbicus - 12-04-2007

Quote:I presume the hot weather was all down to those coal powered Roman bath houses and petrol eating chariots!
IIRC, there was an area of Roman industry where the air was so foul birds dropped from the sky dead, and arctic ice core samples dating to the same period show blackened layers from the processes they used? I'm being serious.

As you say fashion must have had something to do with it, but I suspect extended exposure to cooler climates in the north with the long term expanded Empire was the predominant factor, where not only clothing previously thought to be barbaric became the norm but so did, to an extent, arms and armour. I'm not convinced going out on a Saturday night up North today is evidence that warm clothing wouldn't be worn during cooler periods. I've seen plenty of big coats worn during the day in winter when it wasn't such an imperative to attract a mate Big Grin

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - M. Demetrius - 12-04-2007

Quote:80 BC - 110 AD Bjorc et al 1991 Warm climate Shetland Is, Antarctica
O my gosh! Do we also find that all the islands and coastal areas were flooded and uninhabitable during that time period? If not, why are we so alarmed today?

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Tarbicus - 12-04-2007

Quote:O my gosh! Do we also find that all the islands and coastal areas were flooded and uninhabitable during that time period? If not, why are we so alarmed today?
It didn't say they were flooded. :wink:

Wet:
[Image: raining_470x352.jpg]

Flooded:
[Image: _42446336_flood_4boatpa.jpg]

Very very flooded:
[Image: londonflood.jpg]

Re: Winter Issue Clothing - Senovara - 12-04-2007

Confusedhock: I remember seeing all that flooding on the BBC and I'm thinking ... " In England!?" It was abit of a shock.