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+--- Thread: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... (/showthread.php?tid=11559)
Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Magnus - 01-22-2008
Well, I've had no luck obtaining any solder paste. So, I followed some advice and made my own. I used a brand new file, and filed some lead free silver solder into a nice dust and sprinkled that over a sheet of thin brass which I fluxed. I used a regular paint brush to even it all out.
I put it in the oven, and had to take it up to 450 degrees F to get it to melt...and boy did it turn out like a giant piece of s**t.
It looks like a lunar landscape...dotted with hills and mini-craters.
Since I'm after tinned belt plates, what I'm going to do is fold some thin tin-foil over brass sheet and stamp the whole thing.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - M. Demetrius - 01-22-2008
I wonder what a piece of that lunar landscape would look like after you've pressed the design into it? Might not look so bad after all...might be worth the try. But again, what do I know?
Wes knows how to tin things. Maybe he has a word to add?
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Hibernicus - 01-22-2008
Next apply heat to soften the tin and then spread it with a damp cloth... old cotton wash cloth'll do just fine.. or a damp natural bristle brush.. I'm partial to the cheap throw away variety. With some practive you'll be able to spread the bumps out and leave a very shiny surface.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Marcus Mummius - 01-22-2008
Quote:Next apply heat to soften the tin and then spread it with a damp cloth... old cotton wash cloth'll do just fine.. or a damp natural bristle brush.. I'm partial to the cheap throw away variety. With some practive you'll be able to spread the bumps out and leave a very shiny surface.
I can tin fairly small objects this way (by wiping the molten tin over the surface) but I fail at larger objects. How can you do something larger, like let's say, a helmet or an umbo?
Vale,
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Magnus - 01-22-2008
Can I re-heat this piece and try wiping?
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Malleus - 01-22-2008
YES.
Steve P/Malleus.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Wes - 01-22-2008
I tin lrge areas using paste flux and lead free solder. On my pots I use real tin. I use the pink fiberglass insulation as a wiper, I tear off a bunch of hunks and wipe the molten tin only once with that piece (it carbons up and makes it look like crap!) I have also used flax tow successfully. I can send you th flux I use or you can send me your pieces and I can tin them for you. I have an assortment of pots I need to do, add yours and I can do it as well.
Wes
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 01-22-2008
You can re-heat the piece. But first you can "paint" it another time with flux, and then aply heating. When the piece is very hot, and the tin is molten, then spread it with the cloth: VERY QUICKLY, because the tin will low his temperature. CAUTION: IT'S DANGEROUS. Use a thick cloth or do it with special gloves.
You can do that proces all the times you want. Think that probably with the solder paste you probably have get the same "lunar surface". So the solder paste self made it's ok, not?...
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 01-22-2008
Quote:Well, I've had no luck obtaining any solder paste. So, I followed some advice and made my own. I used a brand new file, and filed some lead free silver solder into a nice dust and sprinkled that over a sheet of thin brass which I fluxed. I used a regular paint brush to even it all out.
And probably it's better to do the paste apart mixing the tin and the flux and then paint the surface. You have sprinkled that over the fluxed sheet, so the dust gets not regular.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Magnus - 01-22-2008
I see what you're saying Cesar, you're probably right.
Wes, I'll see if I can salvage this sheet by re-heating it...if not I may take you or paul up on your offer re: solder paste.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Gaius_Calvus - 01-22-2008
Hey, Brother!
Welcome to the "I hate tinning" club, of which I am a member in good standing! :lol:
Check out the attached pics of a balteus I did last year. I selectively tinned the center, raised portion of each plate as well as the pugio frogs, and buckle. I also tinned every-other apron stud, and the terminals. It was through this process that I resolved not to tin anything else, ever.
Here are the products I used.
1) Oatey #95 Lead Free Tinning Flux: www.oatey.com
This is flux that contains tin, but no solder. I used this for the center, raised portion of the belt plates as well as the studs.
2) Kester Aquabond Lead Free Solder Paste: www.kester.com
This is lead-free solder paste that contains solder as well as flux. I used this for the FLAT parts of the belt: buckle, pugio frogs, and apron terminals.
I used a torch, heating slowly, and wiped with a DRY rag (I really like Wes' idea of the insulation, though -- wish I had known that). The reason I don't use a damp cloth (as I have read suggested elsewhere) is that the moisture BOILS out of the cloth and leaves little "pits" in the flux or solder.
I have not tried the oven tinning method yet, but I bet it would work. What I would suggest is that if you are making belt plates, cut the plates to size first and tin each plate separately, then stamp them.
I would NOT use the Kester solder paste on a rounded object, but it works OK on flat surfaces. I found that I did get some "globby" areas, but I kept re-applying the solder and re-heating it until I got a fairly smooth coverage, then polished it with metal polish (like Brasso) and the felt wheel on my Dremel tool.
You can polish the SOLDER paste pretty thoroughly, but NOT the FLUX. The flux WILL rub off if you polish it too aggressively. I basically wiped it down and then rubbed it a little with some 4/0 steel wool.
If you can't get either of these products in Canada, then let me know and I will mail you some.
Regards (and good luck),
Edge
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - M. Demetrius - 01-22-2008
Salve Calve,
Those don't look bad at all from the pictures. I would not be surprised to see slightly uneven surfaces on original pieces. Some have said, though, that they tinned small objects by simply dunking them in molten tin. I have no idea what the ancients would have used for flux, or even if they did.
Possibly, pre-cleaned, pre-heated brass or bronze dipped into tin would simply bond together without having the need for flux. Most of the time, we heat the fluxed tin together, like you did, watch for the flow and move on to the next small area. I don't think that's the optimal way, having tinned a whole Coolus that way, taking the better part of half a day. Nearly never got all the flux goo off the metal. Spoiled a couple of polishing wheels in the process.
Later, I sold the helmet anyhow, but it looked pretty good while I had it. What I noticed, though, was from six feet, it looked basically the same as satin polished steel. I'm with you on not tinning big stuff any more. I send it to people like Wes. Tried a patera. No, no, that was a dreadful mistake, too. No tinker blood in this body, I guess.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Wes - 01-22-2008
I wonder how quickly my wife would kill me if I tossed a piece of metal in the oven? I have a buddy that took my old stove, he uses the oven for powder coatings on car parts...
I use a torch when I do tinning, unless I am doing a demo, then I use a fire. Torch is way easier!!!
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Hibernicus - 01-22-2008
I learned about using a wet cloth to wipe the hot tin from a professional retinner of cooking pots.. with a couple of quick swipes he'd leave the inside of the pot brilliantly shiny! In a video I saw some years back the tinner used a "sponge in a stick" .. a sea sponge, dampened to spread tin in a deep pot.
In those rare times when we use say Oateys for example a wet cloth quickly removes any charred or burned flux.
When we tin a helmet and the tin "clumps" on the surface we use a flame source on the inside to reheat the helmet and respread the tin with a damp brush or a damp cloth.
When hot, dipping tin can cake up in unsightly layers. A reheat and a swipe elimintes those bumps and clumps.
Re: Why I\'m never attempting tinning again... - Magnus - 01-22-2008
Edge,
Your belt looks absolutely fantastic man! And I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one in this club lol. Seriously though, the selective tinning really adds to the belt's presentation.
I'm going to re-heat that plate today and see if I can't get it to wipe smoother. With my torch....
The tinning in the oven (That's how I did my plate above) was ok...but yes, it does tend to stink up the house.
Also, how do I degrease the plate of any remaining flux?