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+--- Thread: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? (/showthread.php?tid=12184)
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Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - jkaler48 - 03-28-2008
Did a search for field oven and bread baking here on RAT and got no results
about how (or if) the Legions baked bread on campaign.
Any info known on field ovens either carried by mule or cart or temporary
wood and earthen ovens build in march camps? (Assumes some very busy
overnight bread baking details I suppose)
I wouldn't mind reconstructing (if such exists) a folding iron oven that could
be covered with coals and earth and bake one or two loaves. I don't think
I would be building a cart with a Roman version of a field stove though :lol:
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Marcus Mummius - 03-28-2008
Quote:Did a search for field oven and bread baking here on RAT and got no results
about how (or if) the Legions baked bread on campaign.
Any info known on field ovens either carried by mule or cart or temporary
wood and earthen ovens build in march camps? (Assumes some very busy
overnight bread baking details I suppose)
I wouldn't mind reconstructing (if such exists) a folding iron oven that could
be covered with coals and earth and bake one or two loaves. I don't think
I would be building a cart with a Roman version of a field stove though :lol:
I have to look for the references but several marching camps from the caesarian gallic war period were found in France and Belgium. I remember that temporary ovens were found in some of those camps. I don't remember if the excavators were able to make out if they were used for pottery or for bread, but at least we know that temporary ovens existed.
Vale,
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - LVCIVS VVLPES - 03-28-2008
this is a field oven, civilian or military :?: :?: end of 1BC
its for making flat bread or how do you call it?
this type of oven is still in use in many places
you can find it in the museum of -Vaison la Romaine - France
Cheers
Luc
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Peroni - 03-28-2008
Flat bread can also be made in a frying pan. My wife demonstrates this regularly at shows.
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Marcus Mummius - 03-28-2008
Quote:Flat bread can also be made in a frying pan. My wife demonstrates this regularly at shows.
I'd be very interested to learn how she does that. What ingredients does she use? How long does it take?
Vale,
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs - 03-28-2008
You can also bake bread in a Romertopf. A clay oven, basically a large clay pot, with a lid.
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Carlton Bach - 03-28-2008
I think we had this discuission somewhere before - I think it's unlikely the military carried field ovens because the Roman army distributed grain rations which the soldiers on the march would individually convert into edibles - porridge or bread 'baked in the ashes'. Baking their own bread on campaign was considered the mark of a properly soldierly attitude in an emperor. When in semipermanent or permanent camp (where such ovens would be more likely) it is easy to improvise a baking oven under almost any conditions. I've built one with a few friends, basically from dirt, over the course of two days with maybe altogether eight man-hours input, and it was a fairly complex affair. A pit oven is even faster. Making portable ones for a military without a centralised mess structure makes little sense. I am concvinced, though, that portable ovens existed, with the express purpose of being portable, and were used by soldiers whenever they thought they could get away with it and there were no civilians near to intimidate out of their own equipment.
As was pointed out above, though, you really don't need an oven to bake bread. It is practical and economical, but not necessary. I've personally made flatbread in the pan and leavened bread 'sub testudo', though the latter technique is tricky and I failed more often than succeeded. The trick to the pan is to make your bread flat enough to cook all the way through before it burns on the outside. You need no more than flour and water for it to work, though adding salt, a bit of oil, lard, milk, egg or cheese add to the flavour. Make a stiff dough, work it into flat rounds and 'bake' in the pan, turning relatively frequently. Baking 'sub testudo' (in the fire under a bown) is tricky because you have to gauge the temperature right and I usually get 'burned on the outside-raw on the inside' for my trouble.
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Marcus Mummius - 03-28-2008
Quote:Baking 'sub testudo' (in the fire under a bown) is tricky because you have to gauge the temperature right and I usually get 'burned on the outside-raw on the inside' for my trouble.
Very true, I have exactly the same experience. One of my comilitones tries to bake bread 'sub testudo' every event and every time we get something that's rock hard, and black on the outside and raw on the inside. We eat it, because we don't want to hurt his feelings :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll try the pan method. Sounds much better
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Peroni - 03-28-2008
We also use the Testum method at shows. Put hot ashes on the top of the testum and it makes lovely bread.
Here's one of our testum pots seen on the far right of the photo..
![[Image: gn20n20av.jpg]](http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/peronis/more/gn20n20av.jpg)
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-28-2008
As long as olive oil softens it enough to eat, rock hard is dureable Jef! :lol:
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Robert - 03-28-2008
I have at one time bought a bread baking ceramic device, much like a small Romertopf with handles, for my collection of antique household ceramics. It is shaped like two small pans upended to create a enclosed oval roundel, the lips closing the affair. The French saleslady explained dough was placed in one of the pans and the bread was baked in the ashes of a dying fire. As it is packed away in the garage somewhere with the other brocante stuff, sorry for not being able to provide a picture. Perhaps someone recognises the description and can provide a leed to archeological evidence. Because these ceramics were rather small and easy to carry, it came to my mind this could be the ideal solution to a miles on the march.
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Carlton Bach - 03-28-2008
Quote:I have at one time bought a bread baking ceramic device, much like a small Romertopf with handles, for my collection of antique household ceramics. It is shaped like two small pans upended to create a enclosed oval roundel, the lips closing the affair. The French saleslady explained dough was placed in one of the pans and the bread was baked in the ashes of a dying fire. As it is packed away in the garage somewhere with the other brocante stuff, sorry for not being able to provide a picture. Perhaps someone recognises the description and can provide a leed to archeological evidence. Because these ceramics were rather small and easy to carry, it came to my mind this could be the ideal solution to a miles on the march.
As a dedicated civilian, I cannnot speak to that aspect, but if I had to lug around 30-odd kilograms of assorted metalware, I would think twice about *any* esxtra weight.
Roman ceramic 'testi' are fairly well attested in the archeological evidence, though, so it's hardly impossible. But I will repeat,. you can bake bread without these tools. If you're not picky about minor things like flavour, you can even bakle it directly in the ashes.
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - Robert - 03-28-2008
As a boyscout, many, many years ago :? , we also made bread by wrapping the dough around a stick, so no need to get all messy in the ashes. You do have a point on weight there, but if one was carried for every eight men on the mule, along with the millstone, this would be very probable, eliminating the need for a fieldoven entirely and still getting well cooked bread with little hassle.
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - jkaler48 - 03-29-2008
Peroni\\n[quote]We also use the Testum method at shows. Put hot ashes on the top of the testum and it makes lovely bread.
Here's one of our testum pots seen on the far right of the photo..
There is some discussion about packing one of these with the grindstone
on the mule or even carried so what does yours weigh?
And what is the time required to bake enough bread (however much that is)
for eight hungry soldiers? Or would more than one be required?
Re: Did Field ovens for bread baking exist? - M. Demetrius - 03-29-2008
Quote:You can also bake bread in a Romertopf. A clay oven, basically a large clay pot, with a lidWhich, of course, is called Clibanum in Latin, meaning "oven". They were a ceramic bowl/lid oven that could hold coals on the top, something like a cast iron Dutch oven, but made from clay. Somewhere I have a picture of one, but I can't find it right now.