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+--- Thread: Plumbata (/showthread.php?tid=1271)
Re: plumbata - Robert Vermaat - 10-28-2007
Finally, 3 more images of landed plumbatae:
![[Image: plumbatae2007_6.jpg]](http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/plumbatae2007_6.jpg)
LM II at a nice angle.![[Image: plumbatae2007_7.jpg]](http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/plumbatae2007_7.jpg)
The modified tail of DP II.![[Image: plumbatae2007_8.jpg]](http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/plumbatae2007_8.jpg)
F II may have landed straight here.
Plumbata - Paullus Scipio - 10-28-2007
A very interesting and thoughtfully carried out piece of research ! Yet another laudes! If I may make so bold, what made you anticipate ranges of circa 80 metres, and were the throws 'static' or carried out with a 'run-up?'
In addition, of course, range and consistency will improve significantly with practice/training....
Re: plumbata - Iagoba - 10-29-2007
A good working procedure, testing and publishing the research!
An example for us!
Re: plumbata - Robert Vermaat - 10-29-2007
Thanks guys.
Paul, thanks for asking, I'll add the info. I attempted one 'running throw' but that wasn't succesful, so I quit that. Shortening the shafts will no doubt improve the next attempt.
The expected distance of 80 meters was based on information from other groups (esp. Coh. I Gallica) who apparently have achieved such distances.
Re: plumbata - brennivs - tony drake - 10-29-2007
Vortigen I have the pics of the Plvmbata I made from the week end gig will post in the next few days
Regards Brennivs
Re: plumbata - John Conyard - 10-30-2007
It certainly looks like you had some fun!
I'm short of time, but would like to make two observations.
I believe lighter darts with a weight closer to the originals would have flown a greater distance.
And that the extra distance would have resulted in a more vertical descent.
You certainly have some nice sandy beaches.
Re: plumbata - Robert Vermaat - 10-30-2007
Quote:Vortigen I have the pics of the Plvmbata I made from the week end gig will post in the next few daysThanks Tony!
Re: plumbata - Robert Vermaat - 10-30-2007
Hi John,
Yes, it was fun, that's for sure!
Quote:I believe lighter darts with a weight closer to the originals would have flown a greater distance.
And that the extra distance would have resulted in a more vertical descent.
OK! That's interesting, because I up till now assumed that heavier darts would go further... Have much do yours weigh? And can I buy a few (3-5) from the person who makes them?
Btw, I'm now more relaxed towards throwing plumbatae from the saddle - I went over the Burgh Castle evidence again. :wink:
Re: plumbata - John Conyard - 10-30-2007
We get them made in-house, with our veruta, spicula, shields, belts etc. Weapons are made to a set pattern, by which I mean a standard size and weight. I first established these several years ago based on a variety of finds, and since then members have improved upon them.
I'll PM you about arms sales. But I'm not sure selling Roman arms to continental Europe is a good idea! They might come back the other way one day.
I've just weighed 3 at random complete with flights. Two (MKII versions) are 6oz, one heavy example (MKI) is 7oz. I have no idea what this is in Dutch. We reconsider our patterns at the end of each year and try and improve on them where necessary. The MKII's were made lighter in around 2004, and haven't changed since. But the blunts used in displays vary dramatically in weight and length. We are forever making new blunts for shows. One cavalry display can break 12 darts in just a few minutes. That can be up to 36 darts in an afternoon.
Re: plumbata - Robert Vermaat - 10-30-2007
Quote:I've just weighed 3 at random complete with flights. Two (MKII versions) are 6oz, one heavy example (MKI) is 7oz.
Hi John,
That would be about 171 and 200 grams, indeed lighter than what I have.
I take it this is your MK II? Split-socket type including the nail:
![[Image: plumbata.jpg]](http://www.comitatus.net/arms2photos/plumbata.jpg)
Re: plumbata - John Conyard - 10-31-2007
The photo shows a MK II above and a MKI below. The MK II has a thinner head.
Re: plumbata - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 10-31-2007
Hello, Robert:
Nice tests!
About the verticality of the landing, i thin the better results will be if you make some feather stabilizers, but very bigger than the ones you have made.
Probably the wooden wings or the short feather are more apropiated for achieve a straigth flying of the proyectil. There are ideal for straight flying proyectils, like bolts or arows. For get a vertical landing you have to add a "parachute efect". Look at a badmington ball. The stabilizers are clearly oversized respect the ball itself.
Please, make one of that oversized feathers, probe it and say us how goes!
About the distance, i think the test have to be made in "real battle conditions": with full equip, scutum, etc. The maximum distance of Aitor's group probably have been make without full equip.
Re: plumbata - Robert Vermaat - 10-31-2007
Hi Cesar,
Thanks!
Quote:About the verticality of the landing, i thin the better results will be if you make some feather stabilizers, but very bigger than the ones you have made. Please, make one of that oversized feathers, probe it and say us how goes!Larger feather stabilisers, OK. That would aslo work better with a lighter missile, so that the tail is 'dragged forward' less than it is now.
Still, my own missile, being heavier than the others and with smaller stabilisers, achieved the best distance.... :?
OK, I will replace existing feather stabilisers anyway. The only problem I see is that larger feather stabilisers are more vulnerable.
Quote:About the distance, i think the test have to be made in "real battle conditions": with full equip, scutum, etc. The maximum distance of Aitor's group probably have been make without full equip.
Did they? How far has anyone from I Germanica ever thrown a plumbata?
Jordi (Soler I think it was) claimed that the Septimani also achieved such distances of up to 80m...
Eventually, that goes without sayng. And when I've finally manged distances above, say, 60 metres, I will surely do them again in full armour. But before that I keep with my theory that plumbatae were thrown mostly by the 'lighter troops of ranks 5 to 8 on the battlefield. Which means I can do the test also in 'modern' clothing, or only with a tunica and not any armour. :wink:
Re: plumbata - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 10-31-2007
Well, full equip can be light troops without armour, but with a shield, etc.
For the vulnerability of the leathers, try to use goose feathers, i think there are very strong!
Legio Prima/ Septimani Seniores have made several launches, but we don't make , yet, a medition of the distances.
Both Jordi Soler and Faventianus can, in my opinion, achieve 60 m. They are brave and strong men!
Re: plumbata - Peroni - 10-31-2007
Great work Robert!
BTW, The Deepeeka ones are socketed rather than tanged if that makes any difference?!. The socket is beneath the lead weight. I think the LM ones are tanged.