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+--- Thread: Rooftile stamp; which legion? (/showthread.php?tid=15290)
Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Jona Lendering - 06-11-2009
I made a photo of this rooftile in the reopened Xanten museum. It reads something like LE? XX??, and I can not make sense of it is. I'd say the first word is LEG, but the last sign is not a G; it looks more like an X, but the writer uses a different X, so it isn't an X. The final signs are a ligature about which I cannot even think a hypothesis. Is there someone who is smarter than I am?
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - D B Campbell - 06-11-2009
Quote:Is there someone who is smarter than I am?Probably not!
But, back to the tilestamp ... I'm tempted to read LE(gio) XXX (although all three Xs, as you noted, are not identical), but I cannot force the remainder to read VV (for Ulpia Victrix). The legion always has these cognomina, as far as I can see.
Indeed, more bizarrely, that remainder looks like PRI in mirror image, but if the stamp were reversed, the L at the start would be upside-down. (For Primigenia, we need XXII, in any case.) A frustrating conundrum. :?
[size=85:3srdb5jw]P.S. Hope you had a good day in Xanten. (Jealous. :mrgreen: )[/size]
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Medicus matt - 06-11-2009
I've got a LEG II tile pulled from a spoil heap where the G of LEG is also very indistinct (or possibly not a G at all)...not sure if this was common ...old stamp possibly?
As for the characters at the end...I know that some stamps carried not only the usual LEG ** but also characters to represent the honorific (so some stamps for the X Fratensis are LEG X F). Might it be a LEG XX stamp with a couple of characters after? The very end one might possibly be a 'V' for 'Valeria'?
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Medicus matt - 06-11-2009
Quote:Jona Lendering:31e7lu0k Wrote:Is there someone who is smarter than I am?Probably not!
But, back to the tilestamp ... I'm tempted to read LE(gio) XXX (although all three Xs, as you noted, are not identical), but I cannot force the remainder to read VV (for Ulpia Victrix). The legion always has these cognomina, as far as I can see.
Doh! (slaps forhead), Xanten! Of course it'd be the XXX. :oops:
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 06-11-2009
Is it possible the guy who made the stamp was suffering a hangover?
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Jona Lendering - 06-11-2009
Quote:Is it possible the guy who made the stamp was suffering a hangover?Sounds plausible to me.
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - jho - 06-12-2009
Couldn't it also be LEC XX II (Primigenia) P(ia) F(dielis)?
I believe I see "p" and"f" attached to the lower part of each "I".
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 06-12-2009
The bit that looks like lower case 'b' on the left? That was confusing me as well....
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - jho - 06-12-2009
Yes, exactly.
If you look at the tile stamps of XXII PPF here:
[url:2alap61m]http://books.google.de/books?id=6NpBoORyGHAC&printsec=frontcover[/url]
there appear to be other cases where the "II" is dropped or merged with all or part of the "P®PF" (e.g. no. 83 and no. 162)
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - D B Campbell - 06-12-2009
Quote:Couldn't it also be LEC XX II (Primigenia) P(ia) F(dielis)?I think it more likely to be LEC XX (II) PRI , where (as I noticed earlier) the PRI appears upside down and mirror-image.
At the time, I didn't think this very likely, but your excellent link to CIL shows that, in fact, it is very likely (cf. no. 64, where PRI appears exactly like this, and others where XXII appears as XX owing to peculiar ligatures)!
Kudos to you. Together, we get there in the end!
Quote:Is it possible the guy who made the stamp was suffering a hangover?It's quite clear from Jens' CIL link that the men responsible for the tile stamps of XXII Primigenia had a constant hangover!! :lol:
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - jho - 06-12-2009
Looking at the picture again, your analysis is probably correct. All I contributed was a little luck with googling.
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Matt Lukes - 06-12-2009
Sorry, just how does one get a 'C' from an 'X shape? If LEGIO is abbreviated just "L" then surely "LE" is reasonable too- so LE(G)XXX seems reasonable...
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - D B Campbell - 06-12-2009
Quote:LE(G)XXX seems reasonable...Not sure what you're suggesting, Matt -- Legio XXX Pri(migenia) ?! :?
Jona: I suspect that, unless it's a recent find, your tile stamp will be found on p. 59 or 60 (which are unavailable in the Google version). The peculiar letter after the LE, which I took to be a botched G (see nos. 123 and 124, where the G is crossed through), may turn out to be the II of XXII (see nos. 10 and 51, where the numeral is written IIXX). A visit to the library may be required!
Re: Rooftile stamp; which legion? - Jona Lendering - 06-12-2009
Quote:I think it more likely to be LEC XX (II) PRISounds plausible indeed.