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Criss-crossed belts - Neuraleanus - 09-10-2009
I'm planning the construction of a second belt used to suspend my gladius. A few questions:
1. On which side of the belt should I put the buckle? It seems the buckle could be placed on either the left or the right and I'm leaning towards making the buckle placement opposite that of my pugio belt.
2. How to do the gladius suspension. The best illustration of this that I've seen is on page 24 of Dan Perterson's book. This consists of a pair of parallel leather straps looping over the belt.
3. Should I completely cover the belt with plates? The few reconstructions that I've seen have done this.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - PhilusEstilius - 09-11-2009
I think for a Legionary style the Buckle should realy be on the right so that when you come to fit the belt on, the right hand holds the buckle and it will not slip through your hand and fall whereas the strap end could easy slip and sword drops to ground before it's tied.
In the past I have always used two long straps fitted to the lower rings crossed at the back of the sword then through the upper rings and onto belt frogs.
I have also covered the belt with plates but allow for about two to three plates before the first frog so the buckle sits at the left side, then the pugio belt is done the reverse of this so it sits at the right side and of course with the pigio belt buckle being in the left hand when fitting you can't drop the pugio as well.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Gaius Longius - 09-11-2009
Dr Mike Bishop posted a link some time ago to a PDF "The Early Imperial Apron" (JMRS3 1992) which contained images of early grave stele specific to the belts and apron.
Not sure of its location but it should answer your question on where to set the buckles.
Regards,
Gary
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Neuraleanus - 09-12-2009
Quote:Dr Mike Bishop posted a link some time ago to a PDF "The Early Imperial Apron" (JMRS3 1992) which contained images of early grave stele specific to the belts and apron.
Not sure of its location but it should answer your question on where to set the buckles.
Yes, I have that article and the few illustrations of crossed-belts are mixed on the buckle location. Some buckles on the right while others are on the left. Maybe it doesn't matter.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Marcus Mummius - 09-12-2009
Quote:Quote:Dr Mike Bishop posted a link some time ago to a PDF "The Early Imperial Apron" (JMRS3 1992) which contained images of early grave stele specific to the belts and apron.
Not sure of its location but it should answer your question on where to set the buckles.
Yes, I have that article and the few illustrations of crossed-belts are mixed on the buckle location. Some buckles on the right while others are on the left. Maybe it doesn't matter.
The buckle on my gladius belt is on the opposite side to the one on my pugio belt with apron.
I'd suggest covering the entire belt with plaques. I left open a zone where my gladius is attached to the belt, but the lack of plates here makes the leather stretch a bit after time.
I attach my gladius to the belt using a strap with a buckle that goes crosswise through the four rings on the back. I feed the waistbelt through this. There's a good drawing of this system, perhaps someone can post it? I can't locate it at the moment.
Vale
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Peroni - 09-13-2009
Quote:There's a good drawing of this system, perhaps someone can post it? I can't locate it at the moment.
Here's one I made earlier...
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Re: Criss-crossed belts - Neuraleanus - 09-13-2009
That's different from the picture in Dan's book. He shows a pair of parallel leather straps looping over the belt.
By the way, I intend on ordering some plates and a buckle from Armamentaria next week.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Marcus Mummius - 09-13-2009
Quote:Quote:There's a good drawing of this system, perhaps someone can post it? I can't locate it at the moment.
Here's one I made earlier...
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That's the system I use
Re: Criss-crossed belts - PhilusEstilius - 09-13-2009
Here is a link to a picture of the late Doug'. Arnold who was with the II AVG group U/K, I kitted him out as a Centurian also with cross belts of course he does not have an apron on his dagger belt.
It looks like he uncrossed the sword thongs when he fitted it to the belt, indeed the belt that has the square type buckle is a copy I made from the original that I found with my metal detector.
I put the original and it's plate into the British Museum as this was the first of it's type ever to be found in Britain.
http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... roman1.jpg
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Neuraleanus - 09-13-2009
Yet a third suspension method.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - kevair464 - 10-07-2009
Hey Lee, I don't know if you figured out your belt question yet, but here is a picture of my dual belts. THe belts are by Armentaria, you'll notice i didn't cross them, but the gladius belt sits on top of the pugio belt, I chose to have the plates a bit different between the two for variety. Also, there is no apron (As is attested to the period we portrey), but both belt ends are extra long and have a terminal ending. To have the strap ends next to each other the buckles are both on the right, and the gladius is attached via the crossed strap method.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Neuraleanus - 10-07-2009
Quote:The belts are by Armentaria, you'll notice i didn't cross them, but the gladius belt sits on top of the pugio belt, I chose to have the plates a bit different between the two for variety
Very nice. I finished the new belt, using the tinned bulls-eye plates and a matching buckle also from Armamentaria:
[url:3of1xw98]http://www.legiotricesima.org/images/newbelt.jpg[/url]
I'm doing a later period, late 1st century, and most of the sculptural evidence seems to indicate for that period that the belts were crossed with the pugio belt having an apron.
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Crispvs - 11-02-2009
Very nice!
Incidentally, I would have said that the crossed belt style is best attested for the middle of the first century AD, simply because the majority of the Rhineland stelae which show it date from that period.
Regarding belts completely covered with plates, most of the Rhineland stelae certainly seem to indicate this but it is worth remembering that the plates from Velson almost certainly constitute a complete set, in which case we have fairly incontravertable evidence for a belt only partially covered with plates. Bishop's article on the Early Imperial Apron (which can be found on the JRMES website) also shows sculptural representational evidence of belts with only a few plates, spaced out along the belts. The remains of a belt which accompanied a sword from Vindonissa also seems to have had only five plates.
Crispvs
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Caius Fabius - 11-03-2009
Perhaps these will be interesting? Two stele on display in Strassborg, (if my notes are correct).
Re: Criss-crossed belts - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-03-2009
Looks as though buckle placement is perhaps up to the wearers preference or just what the belts he has dictates.