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+--- Thread: Greek helmets galore (/showthread.php?tid=15793)
Re: Greek helmets galore - Cincinnatus - 10-10-2009
Hello,
I have been following along here for some time to see if any Greek helmets that have escaped my attention come up. I too have been working on a comprehensive book on the subject of Greek helmets aiming to illustrate and catalog all known surviving examples. We have found nearly 1400 at present including: Boar Tusk, Bronze Age, Kegel, Cretan, Cypriot, Illyrian, Corinthian, Chalcidian, Pilos, Attic, and Boeotian (but excluding, Italo-Corinthian, Negau, Celtic, etc.). A great many are in private collections or in Musuem storerooms and have not been previously published. I would be very interested and grateful if anyone knows of any particularly obscure or unusual examples that I may have missed.
R. H.
Re: Greek helmets galore - MeinPanzer - 10-10-2009
Quote:Nothing new here?
Come on, guys!
Are you looking for iconographic representations of helmets as well as actual examples? Or only the latter?
Re: Greek helmets galore - The Oracle - 10-10-2009
Mostly I'm interested in actual examples!
I am able to announce now the contents of the upcoming publication of selected material ex Guttmann:
- chalcidian helmets with volutes
- "fire-crest"-helmets
- highly decorated piloi and an extraordinary phrygian helmet
- hellenistic piloi
appendix: construction and typology of attic helmets
Not covered will be the "Kegelhelme" (they're published in: H. Born - S. Hansen, Frühgriechische Bronzehelme), the illyrian and the corinthian ones (because the comprehensive publication of the helmets from Olympia is soon coming), the apulo-corinthians ( I simply don't like them). The other italo-chalcidian helmets will be mentioned briefly. Nevertheless, there will be around 70 new helmets ex Guttmann along with several other unpublished helmets of these types.
By the way, "Die Helme des Hephaistos", a richly illustrated book of manufacture-technics of greek helmets from Olympia written by the ex-curator of the Guttmann collection, Hermann Born (hopefully very soon also my advisor) is out now!
Re: Greek helmets galore - Gaius Julius Caesar - 10-11-2009
hopefully in English too?
This is what I have been searching for for almost 10 years, if it what I think it is!
Re: Greek helmets galore - The Oracle - 10-13-2009
Hey guys, bad news!
After officially announcing my Guttmann-project I got a whole shitload of trouble.
In short, it could destroy my career, leaving aside the fact that no archaeological periodical would print it.
I am not amused!
Re: Greek helmets galore - Lýsandros - 10-13-2009
What is the reasoning behind such behaviour? The unpublished samples?
Re: Greek helmets galore - PMBardunias - 10-13-2009
Jorg, The best way to get even is to post for us all of the images of pilos helms you would have used for the book 8)
Re: Greek helmets galore - Peter Raftos - 10-13-2009
As part of the Azoria project in Crete( See [url:2lu3wtxq]http://www.unc.edu/~dchaggis/2007%20Report.html[/url]), Susan Muller-Wiering (Center for Textile Research, University of Copenhagen) submitted a report on a piece of thread recovered from a bronze helmet crest (02-0013) from A1400 in 2002. It is about 3 mm in diameter, with a z-spin direction, made of vegetal material. The fibers are very fine, clinging together in bundles. There are some so-called dislocations along the fibers, suggesting bast fiber, probably linen. It is seemingly a sewing thread, used to fasten the plume to the helmet crest. Has any one come across this paper? See
Re: Greek helmets galore - PMBardunias - 10-13-2009
I recently came across this image in a fragment by the Tyszciewicz painter that shows a remarkably flexible crest-box. I thought some might be interested.
Re: Greek helmets galore - Cincinnatus - 10-13-2009
I am primarily looking for decent images of actual helmets, contemporary images in different media are far too numerous for our purposes.
For instance, I'd love to see a clear image of a Kegel helmet with horns presumably from Ordona, illustrated in black and white in, H. Born & S. Hansen, Frühgriechische Bronzehelme: Sammlung Axel Guttmann, III (Mainz, 1994), p.15, abb. 6, or two other kegels with high crests from the same publication.
A color image of the Azoria archaic example would be nice too, there are so few of this type known.
RH
Re: Greek helmets galore - The Oracle - 10-13-2009
Quote:What is the reasoning behind such behaviour? The unpublished samples?
No, all the helmets from the Guttmann-collection came out of the art market and mostly from illegal excavations.
As a "real" archaeologist one has nowadays to ignore the art market, otherwise you risk being shunned.
Re: Greek helmets galore - Cincinnatus - 10-13-2009
Quote:"This is my basic list of attic helmets:
Melos (Berlin), Melos (Paris), Poteidania, art market Munich (Hermann Historica 43, 2002), 2x Prodromi (Korfu), Athens (Madrid), Kerc (St. Petersburg), Bubuj (Moscow), Gavani (Brailei), Kamenka (Kherson), Grushevsky (Novocherkassk) and Krasnodar. Plus the mentioned fragments and two doubtful forms from Ohrid (Berlin) and Orzonikize (Moscow). "
Are you not including the iron example from Taranto?
RH
Re: Greek helmets galore - The Oracle - 10-13-2009
Quote:Are you not including the iron example from Taranto? RH
Iron helmet from Taranto? You mean the helmet from Canosa from which I posted two images here?
Re: Greek helmets galore - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-13-2009
I think you were searching for this helmet?
Khaire
Giannis
Re: Greek helmets galore - Cincinnatus - 10-13-2009
Quote:Cincinnatus:psmxsdj8 Wrote:Are you not including the iron example from Taranto? RH
Iron helmet from Taranto? You mean the helmet from Canosa from which I posted two images here?
Similar, but I don't think that's it, unless your photos were pre-restoration, as its got long cheek pieces as well.
RH