+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Reenactment (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Greek Re-Enactment & Reconstruction (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=32)
+--- Thread: Draping the chiton (/showthread.php?tid=15894)
RE: Draping the chiton - etrusker86 - 01-27-2016
Usually you take the length between your ellbows when stretched out and double that measure.
I am very thin as well,but it worked for me so far.
For the length I would say go with at least 110cm.
RE: Draping the chiton - Velites77 - 01-27-2016
Thank you Patrick, very useful information!
RE: Draping the chiton - etrusker86 - 01-27-2016
(01-27-2016, 01:11 PM)Velites77 Wrote: Thank you Patrick, very useful information!
Sure anytime! :-)
RE: Draping the chiton - Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-28-2016
(01-27-2016, 02:26 PM)etrusker86 Wrote:(01-27-2016, 01:11 PM)Velites77 Wrote: Thank you Patrick, very useful information!
Sure anytime! :-)
What Patrick said is correct, for the narrowest type of chiton. It shouldn't get any narrower than that. However, if you want to create a pleated chiton, say from twisted linen, or with folded pleats on the shoulder, you should go with wider, even from wrist to wrist, and double.
For the length, i fear most reenactor chitons (including some of mine) are too long. While there were times when the longer chiton was in fashion, archaic and early classical chitons were a bit shorter. Measure from your shoulder to clearly above the knee. Then when you belt and create the "kolpos" the overfold on the belly, it will reach 3/4 to middle of the thigh.
In late 5th century onwards the chiton could reach to just above the knee, but no longer.
Khaire
Giannis
RE: Draping the chiton - etrusker86 - 01-28-2016
Yeah the length is always tricky. I suggestested the 1.10 meters as Velites and I have roughly the same hight.
My chiton is just 1 meter long and when I try to make an proper overfold it ends roughly in the mid of my thighs, which feels a bit skimpy.
RE: Draping the chiton - Velites77 - 01-29-2016
i have planned a chiton and a chlamys,
the distance between my elbows is 95 cm, and the destance between my shoulders and my knees is about 110 cm, so i was thinking
a piece of linen 190-200 cm X 105-110 cm for the chiton and about the same in light wool for the chlamys
for my first project i would like a simple and narrow chiton, greek clothings are comparatively less expensive, so when i have gathered experience i can try my hand with a more flowing garment
RE: Draping the chiton - etrusker86 - 01-29-2016
(01-29-2016, 01:35 PM)Velites77 Wrote: i have planned a chiton and a chlamys,
the distance between my elbows is 95 cm, and the destance between my shoulders and my knees is about 110 cm, so i was thinking
a piece of linen 190-200 cm X 105-110 cm for the chiton and about the same in light wool for the chlamys
for my first project i would like a simple and narrow chiton, greek clothings are comparatively less expensive, so when i have gathered experience i can try my hand with a more flowing garment
Seems good to me, but go with the 110 cm for the length. If you think it is too long afterwards you can still make it shorter.
RE: Draping the chiton - Velites77 - 01-29-2016
i have decided to try a "mock" pattern with a cheap lenght of cloth, probably it is the best way to figure out the right measurements!
i'm getting a bit confused with the chiton and exomis,
my goal is to re-create a peloponnesian war hoplite, and i believe that the terms chiton and exomis were meaning the same thing
called chiton if pinned at both shoulders and exomis if pinned at one shoulder only.... it is right?
RE: Draping the chiton - etrusker86 - 01-29-2016
(01-29-2016, 04:35 PM)Velites77 Wrote: i have decided to try a "mock" pattern with a cheap lenght of cloth, probably it is the best way to figure out the right measurements!
i'm getting a bit confused with the chiton and exomis,
my goal is to re-create a peloponnesian war hoplite, and i believe that the terms chiton and exomis were meaning the same thing
called chiton if pinned at both shoulders and exomis if pinned at one shoulder only.... it is right?
I believe so.
RE: Draping the chiton - Giannis K. Hoplite - 05-07-2016
(01-29-2016, 05:45 PM)etrusker86 Wrote:(01-29-2016, 04:35 PM)Velites77 Wrote: i have decided to try a "mock" pattern with a cheap lenght of cloth, probably it is the best way to figure out the right measurements!
i'm getting a bit confused with the chiton and exomis,
my goal is to re-create a peloponnesian war hoplite, and i believe that the terms chiton and exomis were meaning the same thing
called chiton if pinned at both shoulders and exomis if pinned at one shoulder only.... it is right?
I believe so.
Now, this is probably correct some times. However we should point out that there were many types of chitons at every given period, and also that styles changed in time. So the exomis at the Parthenon can be like a chiton pinned in one shoulder with a pin or a button. A decade later, or possibly even at the same time in another monument we see exomides with the shoulder sewn for about 20cm and the arm hole on the side. This is consistent with the style of the chiton which changed and looked more like a roman tunic, with the arm holes made like opening to the side, rather than opening along the upper hem.
The fact that the shoulder is sewn means that the exomis could be made as an exomis per se and not a double-function garment.
It is also possible that the exomis was never an official garment and that only an old chiton would ever become an exomis if you ripped the seam on one shoulder.
Yet another possibility, which i have tried and works perfectly is that the chlamys, if you passed the arm from the neck hole and tied a belt around your waist could become an exomis. This possibility is confirmed by some exomides which seem open on one side and not sewn like a chiton.
Khairete
Giannis
Here is in photos how a chlamys can be turned into an exomis.
![[Image: 4174968099_34d00ed5a1_z.jpg]](https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2672/4174968099_34d00ed5a1_z.jpg)
![[Image: 4175728710_c29bacf807_z.jpg]](https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2748/4175728710_c29bacf807_z.jpg)
RE: Draping the chiton - Velites77 - 05-07-2016
interesting, for my first recostruction i have opted for a chiton pinned at the shoulders with pins, but for my next project i want two exomis, sewn at the shoulders, one ripped at one side ans another one with both the arm holes sewn, greek clothings are so inexpensive that i can have more than one without problems
all in all, i'm not satisfied with my first chiton, it is too puffy and large, when i wear my belt there is a lot of fabric that i have to pull up above my waist, basically it look like a tent, in the vase paintings and Marbles that i have seen the chiton or the exomis are looking more stream lined and slender
i have taken, as suggested, the lenght from elbow to elbow with my arms extended and the distance between my shoulders and my legs, but the result is a very bulky and un elegant garment
for my next exomis i'll go for a much close fitting look
i have also experimented the possibility that the chlamys could become an exomis, as Giannis suggested, and it works perfectly, the result is very similar at what i have in mind for my garments
RE: Draping the chiton - Giannis K. Hoplite - 05-07-2016
The difficulty in reconstructing Greek clothing is in finding the correct materials and decoration. Even archaeologically Greek textiles have been proven to be very difficult to reconstruct, due to their laborious means of construction, mainly very thin wool threads and fine weaving.
The result we see in paintings and sculpture was achieved by a multitude of techniques, some of them almost extinct. They included weaving with different thickness or different material yarn to create patterns, twisting threads to create a pleated effect, and treating with oil to create "shiny" fabrics.
Decoration could be even more elaborate and complicated.
In other words, I would never say that Greek clothing was simple or easy to reconstruct. Perhaps their fashion was towards garments of simple shape, but intricate in their materials and their properties.
Your chiton may look bulky, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is too wide. It probably means your material is a bit too thick or stiff, and/or it is too long.
Khaire
Giannis
RE: Draping the chiton - Velites77 - 05-07-2016
i have chosen linen for my first project because i was not sure about the right kind of wool to use, the material is probably a bit too stiff, as you suggest, and for sure too long, but i feel it also too wide, the elbow to elbow measure, looks too much for me, unless the garment is taylored and pleated like the red chiton that you wear in the photos at the beginning of the topic.
i have not studied extensively the subject, but simply my chiton is completely different in terms of visual effect respect to the one achieved in vase and Marbles,
RE: Draping the chiton - etrusker86 - 05-08-2016
Linen is always stiff at the beginning.
The longer you will wear this chiton the softer it will get. It is one of the characteristics of linen.
For to wide, I take it you are more on the thin side like me ;_) I would actully say you are on the tight side with a chiton made with the ellbow to ellbow rule.
I have observed, at least with my chitons, after I pinned them at the shoulders that the opening for my arms are almost a bit too small, while arround the waist I don't know where to put all the fabric.
In my expierence it takes some time until you have found a way to make the folds look good and even now I struggle to make it look presentable ;-)
RE: Draping the chiton - Velites77 - 05-08-2016
that's exactly my feeling, the openings for my arms are Always too small and the fabric around my waist too much,
i'm 175 cm tall and i weight 75 kilos, i'm not particularly thin but i'm broad shouldered and small waisted,
anyway, my interest is shifted toward the peloponnesian war period and even later, so i'll quit the chiton in favour of a exomis tunic for my next soft kit.
probably for some of you it will sound a bit like an heresy, but after further experiments with scrap cloth, i have found that a piece of fabric of about 90cm x 140 cm is pretty much what i need for my exomis and even for my chlamys, it is not thight at all and looks pretty good, i have just to find a fabric that is softer that the one that currently i have
the first chiton i have made is in bright Yellow shade that is a way too flashy for me, for my next i'll experiment with neutral shades of colours, greys, maroons or drab