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Painted cuirasses - Nearco - 11-15-2009
Hi all!
I have seen in frescos images of painted helmets, and linothorax usually have painted designs. Is there any evidence of painted muscled cuirasses? Does somebody know if there is any fresco showing some kind of painted design on a muscled cuirass?
Thank you very much
Re: Painted cuirasses - hoplite14gr - 11-15-2009
Example of painted cuirasses exist in the British Museum on pottery.
A pottery fragment showing Ariston of the Phylaeidae with a purple painted metalic cuirass. (see Greek art section for original and interpretation)
Also potery showing linothoraxes painted in "checker-board" or romboid designs.
Also "Gods in color" project of the German Antiquites collection proved that armors were painted in bright colours or had painted geometric decoration. (linothorax/leather threads have images)
Kind regards
Re: Painted cuirasses - MeinPanzer - 11-16-2009
I've not seen any direct examples of Classical or Hellenistic representations of muscled cuirasses which have been painted (though I've not seen the vase Stefanos refers to, but it sounds very interesting), but the muscled cuirass of the Augustus Prima Porta was painted in various colours. Combine that with the evidence that shows that both helmets and shields were painted in the Hellenistic period, and I absolutely do not doubt that such cuirasses were painted (and probably brightly, too!).
Re: Painted cuirasses - Doc - 11-16-2009
Ruben,
Thus you think that the actual armor (if we assume that Augustus actually wore that musculata) was painted? In that case, the idea that the armors were made of precious metal is no longer necessary since they were painted and the material became irrelevant.
While I was in Rome, it was explained to me that the white color that was painted on the Augustus musculata suggested a "white" metal as is the case with silver. Thus possibly if Augustus wore this armor, it was of silver with those decorations in relief. Now wether the relief figures were directly beaten out of the breast plate or applied, I do not know. But it is an interesting point that they could have been painted. Those bright colors on silver would have been spectacular.
Re: Painted cuirasses - MeinPanzer - 11-16-2009
Quote:Ruben,
Thus you think that the actual armor (if we assume that Augustus actually wore that musculata) was painted? In that case, the idea that the armors were made of precious metal is no longer necessary since they were painted and the material became irrelevant.
I don't quite think this is the case. The metal was still relevant both for its defensive qualities and because part of it would likely show through as well - on some of the shields depicted on the Agios Athanasios paintings, the rims and the raised portions seem to have been left bare.
Quote:While I was in Rome, it was explained to me that the white color that was painted on the Augustus musculata suggested a "white" metal as is the case with silver. Thus possibly if Augustus wore this armor, it was of silver with those decorations in relief. Now wether the relief figures were directly beaten out of the breast plate or applied, I do not know. But it is an interesting point that they could have been painted. Those bright colors on silver would have been spectacular.
The traces of painting suggest that much of the raised detail was painted, but that some was not, so it was almost certainly a combination of relief and paint, as the statue shows.
Re: Painted cuirasses - Doc - 11-16-2009
Well, if the metal is relevant for defensive purposes, silver would not really be a good choice. Thus we are left with bronze and brass that when cleaned and polished looked like gold. Do you think that the decoration was beaten out deirectly or applied?
Re: Painted cuirasses - MeinPanzer - 11-16-2009
Quote:Well, if the metal is relevant for defensive purposes, silver would not really be a good choice.
Well, it likely wouldn't be entirely made of silver anyway. The armour would just be silvered or gilded bronze or iron.
Quote:Thus we are left with bronze and brass that when cleaned and polished looked like gold. Do you think that the decoration was beaten out deirectly or applied?
What do you mean by applied? I suspect that the decoration was beaten out directly and then painted.
Re: Painted cuirasses - Doc - 11-16-2009
Ruben,
Yes, I was thinking of the relief figures being cast and then applied somehow to the breastplate. I too think that they were beaten out. I would think however, that beating them out of copper alloy would be easier than iron. However, I do agree that a stronger material was used and covered with either silver or gold. That would be the only way it could be funtional.
Re: Painted cuirasses - hoplite14gr - 11-17-2009
Ariston of the Philaidae (pottery fragment from British Museum)
Purple with silver or golden(??) edging.
Filthy rich or what?
Kind regards
Re: Painted cuirasses - Dan Howard - 11-17-2009
Quote:Ariston of the Philaidae (pottery fragment from British Museum)
Purple with silver or golden(??) edging.
Filthy rich or what?
This is clearly a representation of dyed leather and is just another example in the many instances of Greek and Roman leather armour.
Re: Painted cuirasses - hoplite14gr - 11-17-2009
Quote:This is clearly a representation of dyed leather and is just another example in the many instances of Greek and Roman leather armour.
With purple leather greaves to match :!: :!: :!:
These filthy rich guys are full of fetishes :twisted:
kind regards
Re: Painted cuirasses - Doc - 11-17-2009
Dan,
I know this has been discussed before. But since there are what appears to be several representations of leather armor that in certain instances appears to be painted, is it not possible that the Romans used leather armor even though we have only found metal based cuirasses?
Re: Painted cuirasses - Dan Howard - 11-18-2009
Quote: I know this has been discussed before. But since there are what appears to be several representations of leather armor that in certain instances appears to be paintedWhere? How is it possible to determine whether an illustration is meant to be representing cloth, or leather?
Re: Painted cuirasses - Doc - 11-18-2009
Dan,
Is this not what you wrote: "This is clearly a representation of dyed leather and is just another example in the many instances of Greek and Roman leather armour". So how can you tell that it is leather? Unless of course, you were trying to be facetious.
Re: Painted cuirasses - Dan Howard - 11-18-2009
you forgot to quote the
Perhaps I should have used a :lol: or a :roll:
Stephanos understood :wink:
In case I haven't been clear before, any illustrations showing coloured armour could be interpreted in any manner that fits one's pet theory.