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Mural Crown - Printable Version

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Mural Crown - Jona Lendering - 11-17-2009

I am looking for ancient representations of a mural crown, I mean of the type used as a decoration in the Roman army. I have seen modern reconstructions, and I have seen pre-Roman representations (e.g., Tyche); but I cannot remember having seen Roman representations. What have I missed?

Re: Mural Crown - Epictetus - 11-18-2009

Is Agrippa wearing a mural crown here? Is this what you mean?
[Image: augustus-agrippa-crown.jpg]

Re: Mural Crown - Jona Lendering - 11-18-2009

Thanks, just what I needed!

Re: Mural Crown - Praefectusclassis - 11-18-2009

You mean the right one? I'd say that's a Corona navalis as befitting Agrippa. Jona, you might want to take a look at AW III-3, p.41 and 44 for ancient depictions of corona muralis

Re: Mural Crown - Epictetus - 11-18-2009

Yes, I meant the one on the right. I thought that the mural crown had the "battlements."

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/thayer/e/r ... orona.html

Edit: here is one that looks like the ships' prows which I thought was on the naval crown.
[Image: 2198797552_a86b3c6cbd.jpg]

Re: Mural Crown - Praefectusclassis - 11-18-2009

It's not the battlements that are the problem, it's the prows sticking out. There's a prominent one on the front and less detailed ones on the side.

Re: Mural Crown - Jona Lendering - 11-18-2009

Quote:You mean the right one? I'd say that's a Corona navalis as befitting Agrippa.
I needed a picture of the way battlements were shown, so it suits my purposes.

Re: Mural Crown - Epictetus - 11-18-2009

Hmmm. Well, Jona got what he was looking for, but now my curiousity is aroused. Big Grin

So what is Agrippa wearing? Is it a mural crown, naval crown, or is it depicting both crowns? Does anyone have any ideas?

Re: Mural Crown - Jona Lendering - 11-18-2009

Quote:what is Agrippa wearing? Is it a mural crown, naval crown, or is it depicting both crowns?
As far as I know, the naval crown was very rare. Pompey may have been the only other recipient. (Jasper will know this better.) The point is that there will not be a real tradition - or less of a tradition than for, say, a corona civica, which was awarded more frequently and was represented on buildings. The naval crown may, therefore, have been invented several times anew, and what we see is Agrippa's naval crown; other admirals may have had different naval crowns. But I may be wrong.

Re: Mural Crown - Praefectusclassis - 11-18-2009

IIRC Pliny mentions the (very few) recipients of the naval crown, true. They do turn up more in epigraphy later on, but seem to have become - because of its rarity - a prestigious award for consulares that has absolutely bupkiss to do with actual naval warfare.

Re: Mural Crown - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-20-2009

There is a colour plate of Agrippa wearing the rather ridiculous looking crown in the newRoman Navies Book!
How to make your subordinates feel awkward? Reward them with something they can't refuse to wear...... :lol:

Re: Mural Crown - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-20-2009

Also take a look at the ancient Cybele crowns on statues, they also come close to a corona muralis imho

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... .AA.19.jpg

M.VIB.M.

PS also:

http://photos.imageevent.com/aymar55/ro ... n%2031.jpg

http://kt.classy.be/beelden/410_017.gif

http://www.roma-victrix.com/dona/img/do ... elas13.jpg

Re: Mural Crown - Jona Lendering - 11-20-2009

Quote:Also take a look at the ancient Cybele crowns on statues, they also come close to a corona muralis imho

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... .AA.19.jpg
You get the point. There's an oriental connection. Assyrian queens were represented with mural crowns. This is the oldest one I've found; it's Elamite, ninth century BCE.
[Image: naqsh-e_rustam_elamite1.JPG]

Re: Mural Crown - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-21-2009

thats indeed very similar, did you also ever contemplate about the earliest depictions of st Mary? she, in early medieval imagery and also byzantine imagery is often seen wearing the "Cybele" crown.

M.VIB.M.

Re: Mural Crown - Jona Lendering - 11-22-2009

Quote:thats indeed very similar, did you also ever contemplate about the earliest depictions of st Mary? she, in early medieval imagery and also byzantine imagery is often seen wearing the "Cybele" crown.
Do you have an example?