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Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - kevair464 - 12-01-2009
Hey everyone. I was wondering what type of Roman light artillery our unit in production would be considered. I've seen similar units called Catapulta, and others called Ballista. The engine isn't done yet, but I want to make sure I am calling it the right think. See picture below of the unit in production (this is before the stand was completed). Thanks for the help.
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - kevair464 - 12-01-2009
Second quetion... As the Romans were colorful people (in a pigment way not the other way), and tended to use lots of colors in all things, would it be plausable to paint the catapulta, or should I stick to sealing/staining it a natural wood color.....looking for opinions
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - jvrjenivs - 12-01-2009
Quote:Second quetion... As the Romans were colorful people (in a pigment way not the other way), and tended to use lots of colors in all things, would it be plausable to paint the catapulta, or should I stick to sealing/staining it a natural wood color.....looking for opinions
In my opinion you would only take the metal parts with you, and maybe the 'arms' of the machine as these need to be from wood with special qualities. So you would rebuilt the most of the wooden parts when needed, which would account for an unpainted variant. At least this is true for bigger machines I think. But I'm no artillery expert, so don't know what is really known about the use and supplies of machinery. I can imagine smaller ones were taken with them completely, but then I would still leave it blank.
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - Matthew Amt - 12-02-2009
As I learned it, an arrow-shooter is a catapulta, while a stone-thrower is a ballista. But I'd be surprised if the ancients were consistent! Because then you also get scorpio, carro-ballista, etc.
Good question about the paint. I would avoid modern stains, since those were invented to make cheap pine furniture look like cherry or walnut. Oil may be an option, to protect the wood from getting soaked and warped.
I also suspect that artillery was carefully constructed in workshops and transported complete. From what I've heard, they involve some sophisticated and precision woodworking, with good materials. It isn't like slapping together a siege ramp or timber bridge. There are references to artillery being with the baggage train (e.g. the defeat of Legio XII in 66 AD), but I don't know if there are any about assembling or building artillery on the spot. Dunno!
Be careful where you point that thing, eh?
Valete,
Matthew
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - kevair464 - 12-02-2009
Thanks Matt,
We've been calling it a Catapulta under the same assumption, that this is an arrow shooter. I need to treat the wood with something so it lasts and doesn't rot or get water logged, so maybe at least some oil or water sealent will do the trick....though since we did use regular lumber in parts it may look better if we stained it a light color to make it look like a harder wood, not that an oil wouldn't give it a color anyway.
I can attest to the high craftsmanship required to build these. With the tolerances of the moveable parts so tight it would be hard to build these outside of a workshop. Not to mention the unit is highly modular, and breaks down small enough to fit in the bed of a small pickup truck, so would easily fit into an oxcart or somthing of that nature and is light enough for 2 guys to carry.
I will post further pictures as it progresses, I've got the base done now and have the head portion wrapped with bronze sheeting for strength and asthetic value.
Kevin
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - jvrjenivs - 12-02-2009
Don't forget the army was full of skilled craftsmen, who were used to do things outside their workshop.
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - D B Campbell - 12-02-2009
Quote:We've been calling it a Catapulta under the same assumption, that this is an arrow shooter.Technically, it's not the fact that it's an arrow-shooter that makes it a catapulta. It's the design of the torsion frame. Yours is a euthytone frame, which makes it a catapulta (or scorpio).
But you are right -- a catapulta was used for shooting arrows. Whoever is constructing your machine will know this. All the parts are manufactured as fractions or multiples of the intended arrow length. So the fundamental measurement is the arrow!
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - kevair464 - 12-02-2009
Thanks, We are building it ourselves, so i will let us know.....just kidding...it is quite the project
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - AuxArcher - 12-04-2009
I decided to paint my scorpio, and came up with a lot of blanks regarding pigments and painting techniques from Roman times. I ended up using milk paint, as that stuff at least is all natural, and really nice to work with. The arms I am going to leave natural, as I am assuming those will need to be replaced from time to time, but the main components (spring frame, case, etc) should hold up fine. And if I need to rebuilt parts of the machine, I'll paint those as needed.
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - P. Clodius Secundus - 12-05-2009
Looks like you're off to a good start!
It reminds me very much of George Metz's Legio XXIV engine. If you want to finish and protect the wood linseed oil is much better than any kind of modern polyurethane or varnish. It allows the wood to darken with age and take on a nice patina. I like Dane's idea of painting also. The question of building the wooden parts on site, especially for smaller engines, is IMHO nonsense. I'm sure they had the capacity to replace worn out parts in the field, but the time and effort invested in building and tuning an engine far outweighs the resources required to transport it by mulecart. If anyone thinks they were built to fit the metal bits then I challenge them to build one that way, metal parts first and using "green" wood. I think people confuse assembled on with built on site. The larger engines might have had some parts like pehaps the base built as needed, but what if no large timber was available in the theater.
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - Magnus - 12-05-2009
Fantastic job!
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - M. Demetrius - 12-05-2009
If a soldier who used a hasta was called a hastatus, couldn't a ballista crew member be a
Quote:ballistatus(bah LIST ah toos)?
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - kevair464 - 12-05-2009
More production pictures, these are us tightening the ropes for the springs of the head unit of the catapulta. I chose to wrap the head with bronze sheeting to give it a nice look for now. Getting the ropes tight was quite the production. Will post more as we go.
And yes, we used plans provided by George Metz, some things are a little differnt due to the materials we had, and we chose not to get the rope cams machined, instead we made them by cutting the pieces from iron plate and pipe stock and welding them together. Also the gears will be cast iron rather than machined once we get those together.
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - AuxArcher - 12-05-2009
If I may ask, why did you not sheath the hole carrier stanchions and internal stanchions? And what type of wood did you guy end up using for the machine? I went with white ash, as I felt that was strong enough, but I have seen pine machines, including I think George's "Engine O'Terror."
Dane
Re: Latin/Roman Name for our type of Artillery Unit - kevair464 - 12-05-2009
No problem at all with the question. We didn't cover over the front of the stantions for a couple reasons, 1. For schools and educational displays this makes the inner workings easier to demonstrate. 2. Its easier to fix any problems or issues that may arrise, 3. We still might put a plate on the front in the future, but i like how it looks without it at the moment.
The unit is made from high grade lumber, which i think is just pine, pine isn't the strongest wood, but it is very workable and easy to find and replace if needed. The arms are made from Ash and the slider bar is made from fir for extra strength. Once its done and we are sure it works we are going to age the wood to give it a more worn, used look, and then seal it with oil or stain. But the asthetic part will come once we make sure it works