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+--- Thread: Optio Crista (/showthread.php?tid=18024)
Optio Crista - manthos - 12-16-2010
Hi Guys.
Does anyone by chance know where I kan buy an Optio Crista ?
Or must I Try and make one myself ?
Thanks many times.
Peter
Re: Optio Crista - jvrjenivs - 12-16-2010
I don't know about a optio crista, as that seems to be a reenactorism.
Crista in general can be easily made yourself or get one from regular suppliers, like Armamentaria.
Re: Optio Crista - manthos - 12-16-2010
Hi jvrjenivs.
Thanks for your answer. I have one from Armamentaria, but as far as i know the Optio crista has way longer horsehair at the back. Kan I finde one like this somewere ?
Regards, Peter
Re: Optio Crista - jvrjenivs - 12-16-2010
Quote:Hi jvrjenivs.
Thanks for your answer. I have one from Armamentaria, but as far as i know the Optio crista has way longer horsehair at the back. Kan I finde one like this somewere ?
Regards, Peter
As I said, that is a reenactorism. We don't have anything to support that a Optio wore a crest from front to back. It's just the ESG who started to distingues their Optio that way some years back and now it seems to be a historical fact... As for a crest with a tale-like back, just send Adrian Wink of Armamentaria an email. I'm sure he can supply one to you.
Re: Optio Crista - manthos - 12-16-2010
Thanks again.
I didnet know what a "reenactorism" was, but have figured it out now.
I will send Adrian a mail.
Thanks, Peter
Re: Optio Crista - Matthew Amt - 12-17-2010
I don't think the debate is about an optio wearing a fore-and-aft crest, since practically any legionary could have that (according to all the helmet fittings we see!). What reenactors have added is a striped crest (for which there is no Roman evidence that I've seen), and the use of the side feathers by an optio. Certainly side feathers were used by SOMEone, but it doesn't seem to have been strictly an optio thing.
Basically, any regular front-to-back crest that is accurate for a legionary, horsehair or feathers, should be acceptable for an optio, from what we know.
Valete,
Matthew
Re: Optio Crista - Doc - 12-18-2010
I agree with Matt. Any crest color would do with the foward and back position.
Going back to what Jurjen said, it is a reenactorism and we see this with many of the earlier gourps which were later copied by newer groups on the premise that the older are more experienced and that they must know more. However, this is not a good assumption because the information that we gather changes regularly and new evidence may throw out the older theories.
For instance, one of the most popular helmets for the optio impression is the Gallic F and the Gallic I because they have side plume holders. I think that this idea of side plumes on optio helmets stems from some tombstone that was supposedly of an optio where the helmet showed side plumes (I could swear I saw this BUT if I am incorrect, please let me know. I did not see it on the RAT database). As far as the multi crest color is concerned (as Matt mentioned), again the older groups made this up to distinguish the optio from the remaining legionaries and from the centurio.
Re: Optio Crista - Matthew Amt - 12-19-2010
I believe it's the tombstone of Caius Castricius that clearly shows side feathers, yet his career is listed in full and does not mention him being on optio.
Sure wish we knew more about colors...
Matthew
Re: Optio Crista - Gaius Julius Caesar - 12-20-2010
There is a tombstone of a legionary cavalrymen, (i assume, as he carries a gladius) with a center crest and side plumbs....why is I can never find an image when I need it......
Re: Optio Crista - Doc - 12-20-2010
Thanks for the correction Matt. I thought as much. At least I remember the side plumes. :roll:
Re: Optio Crista - muskitear - 12-26-2010
Quote:Thanks for the correction Matt. I thought as much. At least I remember the side plumes. :roll:There have been some mumblings in our group that the long tailed cresta may be a cavalry insignia. As far as the side plumes/feathers go, The golden rule is..If the helmet style/mark found has no plume flutes DONT fit them to your repro helmet.
In our group people usually wear feathers as an award for services to the group. White with black tips is armourer.Red is group leader/narrater/lectures/historic knowledge etc. The optio does indeed have the longer cresta and the centurio the transverse cresta. White feathers are quartermaster/scrounger/procurements
It is not permitted to wear them(feathers) as a personal choice,Those who have them are proud of them.
See last postings in 'Show here your Roman Soldier impression'
Re: Optio Crista - Paullus Scipio - 12-27-2010
Quote:There is a tombstone of a legionary cavalrymen, (i assume, as he carries a gladius) with a center crest and side plumbs....why is I can never find an image when I need it......
I thought you might have been thinking of Flavinus, standard bearer in the troop of Candidus, of the 'Ala Petriana', who died aged 25 after 7 years service.However, he certainly sports a 'Spatha'........
His helmet definitely has large side feathers, and it was the presence of these which made Russell-Robinson surmise that he might have been depicted in a 'full-face-mask' cavalry 'Sports Helmet'. In fact the helmet area on the grave stone is simply too worn to say either way.......but I suspect that it is from this small speculation that the whole idea of standard bearers wearing face masks has grown, supposedly ( but not really) supported by the find of a face mask from the increasingly doubtful 'Kalkriese' site......I think perhaps this is another 'Re-enactorism'?
Flavinus is nickname, probably because his original Gaulish one was unpronouncable, but he wasn't a citizen, or all his three names would appear on the monument. It's derived from 'Flavus' = blond, fairhaired; a nickname by which Arminius' brother Flavus who remained in Roman service, is known as well.
Flavinus seems to have been of high status among his own Gaulish people for he wears a torque.
He died in Britain some time before AD 98, and his 9 foot high tombstone is now at Hexham Abbey where it was used as building material....
Re: Optio Crista - Forty-One - 12-27-2010
Quote:Gaius Julius Caesar:3zgl9jle Wrote:There is a tombstone of a legionary cavalrymen, (i assume, as he carries a gladius) with a center crest and side plumbs....why is I can never find an image when I need it......
I thought you might have been thinking of Flavinus,
Or perhaps Insus? http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/
Re: Optio Crista - Paullus Scipio - 12-27-2010
Well, Insus would certainly fit GJC's post better than Flavinus.... well spotted !!
