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+--- Thread: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? (/showthread.php?tid=19749)
Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 10-29-2011
I spotted this helmet posted on FB by a gent who I think is also a member on here.
Does anyone have information about this helmet, it's find location, place of display,
provenance etc?
It's pretty snazzy and I am interested in any info at all on it, including material/ construction specs as well!
If the chap who posted it on FB is also a memeber here, hope you don't mind, but I am really interested in this, and would be great to hear from yourself!
I am still awaiting an answer on FB as well
mile:
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - hoplite14gr - 10-29-2011
Its in a museum in Bulgaria.
Osprey's "Thacians" has the info on location and dating I think.
Kind regards
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - john roberts - 10-29-2011
The surface seems to be a strikingly shiny black for such an ancient piece. Is it bronze that has acquired an unusual patine, or was it silvered, turning black with age?
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Decebalus - 10-29-2011
The helmet Caesar posted comes from Pletena, mun. Satovča, district Blagoevgrad in Bulgaria. It is on display in Sofia, Museum of National History Inv.-nr. 37325.
It is made of bronze with applications of silver and copper.
Inside the helmet have been found traces of a felt cap.
It has ancient repairs, the lower ends of the cheekpieces have been cut away.
The height is (without cheekpieces) 27,5 cm, total 41,5 cm. Diameter is 24 cm.
It is dated to the first half of the 4th Century BC.
For the type it belongs to the group of Phrygian/Chalcidian helmets because the lower part of the helmet bears strong similarities to the Chalkidian type (ridges in the calotte, eye and ear cutouts, noseguard) whereas the "true" phrygian helmets (also called Thracian by some scholars) have a fully modelled krobulos in one or up to three parts and a brimmed front.
The helmet is published in:
Fol, V.: Le loup en Thrace Hyperboréene, in: I Congreso de Mitología mediterránea. La Razón del Mito. Terrassa 1, 2 y 3 de Julio de 1998. Universidad nacional de educación a distancia, Madrid 2000
Webber, Ch.: The Thracians, Men-at-Arms 360, Oxford 2001, fig. p. 11
Dimitrova, D.: Krieger und Bewaffnung, in: Die Thraker. Das goldene Reich des Orpheus, Ausstellungskatalog Bonn 2004, 127ff. Abb. 5; 294f. Kat.-Nr. 253 Abb
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - John Conyard - 10-29-2011
Details can be copied from: ORPHEUS 8 (1998) Georgiev Memorial Volume.
http://www.thracica.com/modules/library/uploads/vfinkova1.pdf
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - john roberts - 10-29-2011
Are there other "Greek" helmets with flanged earguards like this? I thought only Roman helmets had them. This is a most interesting helmet.
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-31-2011
Yes, there are some, mainly chalkidean helmets with hinged cheek guards (some call them attic) that have these ear guards. Perhaps not so prolongued, but they are there.
Khaire
Giannis
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - john roberts - 10-31-2011
Thanks, Giannis. I'll search for pictures. I'd always thought this feature was distinctively Roman, but it looks as if, once again, the Romans borrowed.
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-31-2011
Here's an example. Much smaller, but they are there.
[attachment=2007]GreekChalcidianstylehelmetbronze500BCE.jpg[/attachment]
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Dany Boy - 11-24-2011
http://www.thracians.net/index.php?option=com_datsogallery&Itemid=76&func=detail&id=56
It’s still dark and glumly according our Thracian history here in Bulgaria:-(
Another set of check plates just the same as the helmet we are talking about were found in a Thracian funeral in Bulgaria!
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - sitalkes - 12-06-2011
About 60 helmets have been found in the area of ancient Thrace, and I have included a full description and classification of the helmets in my book "The Gods of Battle" (including the ones above). This is based on a comprehensive and detailed paper by Dr. Kostadin Rabadjiev. Originally, helmets had fixed cheek pieces but they changed to ones with hinged cheek pieces.
Cheers,
Chris
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Decebalus - 12-06-2011
Hello Christopher!
I'm much interested in the paper by Dr. Rabadjiev. Would you please tell us the title and where it is published?
Many thanks!
Greets
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - sitalkes - 12-07-2011
Sorry, I thought he wrote the article, but he must have given me a copy, in fact there are two references:
Ljuba Ogenova-Marinova & Totko Stoyanov, ”The Chalkidian Helmets and the Origin of the North Thracian Ceremonial Armour” in Studia Archaeologica Universitatis Serdicensis Suppl. IV, Mileta Milcheva (ed),Sofia University Press, 2005, p. 521
Totko Stoyanov, ”A Bronze Helmet of Chalkidian type from Golyamo Shivachevo, Sliven District. Notes on the Chalkidian Helmets in Thrace” in Studia Archaeologica Universitatis Serdicensis Suppl. IV, Mileta Milcheva (ed),Sofia University Press, 2005, pp646- 648
Cheers,
Chris
Re: Phyrgian / Thracian helmet? - Decebalus - 12-07-2011
Thank you Chris, I'll have a look for it.
Greets