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+--- Thread: Udones help (/showthread.php?tid=19983)
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Udones help - Doc - 12-18-2011
Does anyone have good photos of any original or properly reconstructed socks? I would like to make a pair for my mid 1st C AD centurio impression to wear with my caligae.
What colors could or would they have been? I read somewhere that there was a pair found that was multi colored. This sounds interesting but I am not sure if they would be good for a centurio impression. Maybe yes?
Was there a difference with socks in the 1st C AD than the later centuries in terms of style or color?
Were they completely closed or did they have an opening at the toes and heal?
Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Re: Udones help - Cheyenne - 12-19-2011
I have some pictures of a fragment of a sock from the Petrie collection - they are multicoloured stripey socks... I kept saying I'd make a pair at some point. Can't date it much before the end of the 2nd century AD though.
I'll try and find the file, its on a disk somewhere in my work room.
Re: Udones help - Graham Sumner - 12-19-2011
Hello Paolo
There is not really enough surviving samples to answer with certainty many of your main questions. The bulk of the sock finds come from Egypt. I am not sure of the dating of any. They are all far more sophisticated than the single sock example from Vindolanda dated to the first century AD which is just crudely tacked together wool twill material.
As Claire said many of the examples from Egypt are in striped wool but I do know of one example which is a nice plain dark pink red colour. There are photos of them available.
One of the so called Praetorians on the Cancelleria relief appears to have wool socks under his boots which have no covering for the toes or heels but there is no evidence for colour.
None of the sock finds, apart from the Vindolanda example appear to come from military contexts. It is ironic then that the Vindolnda find itself is quite small so it almost certainly did not belong to a soldier. I do not know if it has ever been examined for any traces of dye.
However you can take comfort from the fact that as a first century Centurion you are entitled to wear enclosed boots. In which case what you wear inside them will basically be out of sight!
Graham.
Re: Udones help - Doc - 12-19-2011
Thank you both for your responses. I would appreciate any photos Claire.
Graham, do you happen to have the Vindolanda photo? I have you book with a sock in it. Is this the one?
The reason I asked for color is because I was thinking of making a pair in a dark red color.
I was not sure about enclosed boots for the 1st C AD since I thought that only caligae were in use by soldiers. I will have to make a pair. Do you have any photos for such enclosed boots?
Any help is appreciated.
Re: Udones help - Cheyenne - 12-19-2011
Maybe striped socks could have been imported from Egypt if you were rich enough, in your case Alfredo, your kit would more than be in keeping with a monied class of officer - you could really take your pick of plain or stripey socks.
Re: Udones help - Doc - 12-19-2011
What would the stripey colors be in those socks? What did they look like in terms of manufacture.
BTW, PM sent.
Re: Udones help - Cavok - 01-13-2012
After my first appearance iin my gear last year I got very interested in this subject.
It was May near Chiemsee in Germany 4°c with sleet. Me in open Caligae and Tunic.
But as befitting a British Auxiliary in Raetia I stuck it out and kept the British end up asking the locals when it was going to get properly cold and drank lots of Glühwein. :mrgreen:
I now for the start of this year will have some Sheepskin Udones, Should get those done this weekend along with my Paenella. I want to give that rig a try out as along the lines Crispus has mentioned (More tunics, cloak, legwraps aand Urdones). I will also be making some leg wraps.
I am currently also trying (badly) to perfect my Naalbinding technique which I intend to practice when up in Sweden on business in the next few months, something to do in the hotel at nights.
Does anyone have any tips, tricks, links, cheats or hacks on the best way to Naalbind Socks? either open or closed?
Thanks in advance
Re: Udones help - M. Demetrius - 01-13-2012
There is a yahoo group that is dedicated totally to naalbinding. Questions and answers are what makes the group run. Many pictures and links to videos.
Re: Udones help - Nurglitch - 01-13-2012
Graham, a question that's been bothering me for some time. Antique re-enactment commonly accepts nålebinding as a valid way of making socks, hats and so on. But does it have any basis in actual finds? I know a sock found after 2k years would be heavily felted, but maybe the original pattern of nålebinding would still be recognizable? What's your stance on the subject?
Re: Udones help - Doc - 01-14-2012
From what I know the closest way of reconstructing udones is by using this Naalbinding but I think this method in reality was much later than the Romans. I could be wrong.
Re: Udones help - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-14-2012
Doc, I'm going by memory(which isn't great considering the number of times I've been hit in the head over the years), but the best reconstruction I've seen of the stripy socks are on Armamentarias website.
I have plain coloured socks from Cezary in Poland, naalbinbed.
Re: Udones help - Nurglitch - 01-16-2012
Right, but is there any actual proof of Romans using knitting of any kind? We have some finds from Egypt, right? Were they knit, or plain fabric?
Re: Udones help - Medicus matt - 01-16-2012
Quote:Right, but is there any actual proof of Romans using knitting of any kind? We have some finds from Egypt, right? Were they knit, or plain fabric?
I don't know if any more research has been done since Dorothy Burnham examined Romano-Egyptian socks and presented her analysis in 1972. She concluded that the socks were made by nalbinding.
(Dorothy Burnham "Coptic knitting: an ancient technique" Textile History 3 1972)
The Coptic-style stripey ones on the Armamentaria page are made by my partner, Anna.
Re: Udones help - Martin Moser - 01-17-2012
Quote:I was not sure about enclosed boots for the 1st C AD since I thought that only caligae were in use by soldiers. I will have to make a pair. Do you have any photos for such enclosed boots?
Any help is appreciated.
Hi Paolo,
hard to tell with any certainty, but Mainz style calcei should be a good guess. For the later 1st century you could also consider the net-like upper boots found at Vindolanda, Köln and a few other places.
Re: Udones help - Martin Moser - 01-17-2012
Quote:Right, but is there any actual proof of Romans using knitting of any kind? We have some finds from Egypt, right? Were they knit, or plain fabric?
All the publications I have read dealing with roman era "kniting" clearly state nalbinding as technique. Actual knitting only is described from around the start of the Islamic era in my books on coptic textiles as far as I can remember.
Here are a few websites that have pictures with 3rd/4th century socks from Egypt:
http://knitty.com/ISSUEspring06/FEAThistory101.html
http://knitspot.com/?p=2169 (scroll down a bit)
http://ancientegyptiansock.blogspot.com/2009/11/life-of-coptic-sock.html