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+--- Thread: Linothorax again (/showthread.php?tid=2083)
Re: Linothorax again - Dan Howard - 02-07-2006
Quote:Dan ponco is a valid speculation but I think that spollas was leather possibly used for padding under the armor initialy.Where is the evidence that leather was ever used to pad/line metal armour? All the evidence points to felt or linen. If the spolas was ever worn under armour then it was likely not made of leather.
Re: Linothorax again - hoplite14gr - 02-07-2006
The last plate of Osprey in the "Greek Hoplite" shows some form of padding under the muscled cuirass. It uses grave stelae as ecidence.
I went to Keramikos ancient cemetery last Saturday and they seem to have some validity in their claim but the stelae were wery withered from time.
I do not deny the posibility of armor padding to be cloth but leather could not be excluded in my opinion.
I agree also with you post on Dunkan's reference.
Kind regards
Re: Linothorax again - Dan Howard - 02-08-2006
Quote:I do not deny the posibility of armor padding to be cloth but leather could not be excluded in my opinion.
Why? What benefit could there possibly be in using leather to line armour or as a subarmalis? Layered linen has all the advantages. Has there ever been a piece of plate found with a leather liner? Several have been found with fragments of linen.
Re: Linothorax again - Jason Hoffman - 02-08-2006
Duncan where did you come across the translation "Is there a complete translation or greek copy of these works avaliable? anyone know?
PS Have finally tracked down a source for Eero Jarva's Archaic Greek Body Armour, it turned up on the doorstep today so have not read it yet.
PPS My wife gave birth to our first child yesterday "Lewis Alexander Hoffman" so forgive me if i am a little distracted over the next few months
Jason
Re: Linothorax again - hoplite14gr - 02-08-2006
Leather lining was at Dendra armor and there some corinthian helmets with leather lining traces in Olympia museum. Photo of one in a University of California exists in page 11 of Osprey "The Greek hoplite"
Lining was not always attached to armor but was worn as a separate piece.
Kind regards
P.S. Congartulations Jason!!!!
Re: Linothorax again - conon394 - 02-08-2006
Jason Hoffman
Where did you find Jarva's Book, and is it english?
Re: Linothorax again - Anonymous - 02-08-2006
Congratulations, Jason. Please convey my best wishes to your wife.
Re: Linothorax again - Dan Howard - 02-08-2006
Quote:Leather lining was at Dendra armorThere was leather EDGING on the Dendra panoply. The lining seems to have been linen, though Astrom isn't clear. Walpole seems to think that it wasn't lined at all.
Quote: Photo of one in a University of California exists in page 11 of Osprey "The Greek hoplite"Is this a photo of primary evidence or some artist's interpretation? Can you scan it?
When I talk about lining I am specifically takling about the material being fixed to the inside of the plate. If it isn't attached then we have a separate garment. What evidence is there to suggest even that this undergarment was ever made of leather?
Re: Linothorax again - hoplite14gr - 02-08-2006
Dan, Gioi has scaned that corinthian helmet here:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
Check the image in the middle.
Thanks for clearing about lining. As I said some armors have leather lining as you define it. Professor D´Amato is among the few people who have clearance working first hand with these items so Andrea might be of help here.
I tent to agree that linen lining might be more probable because it seems to be more easily accessible by the average man of the time.
Large quantities of skins and leather in the classical era seem more rare than in the Bronze age.
My interpertation is that spollas was a separete garment like a subarmalis.
ancient sources are not specific about it.
Kind regards
Re: Linothorax again - Arthes - 02-08-2006
Quote:PPS My wife gave birth to our first child yesterday "Lewis Alexander Hoffman" so forgive me if i am a little distracted over the next few months[size=200:a14hxkbf]CONGRATULATIONS[/size]
Jason
I hope your wife and baby Lewis are both happy and well.....
All my best wishes for the future.
regards
Arthes
Re: Linothorax again - hoplite14gr - 02-08-2006
Conagratulations Jason!!!
kind regards
Re: Linothorax again - Dan Howard - 02-09-2006
Quote:Dan, Gioi has scaned that corinthian helmet here:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
Check the image in the middle.
???
I see a helm with holes for a liner or edging. Nothing to suggest which it is and nothing to indicate what it might have been made from.
Re: Linothorax again - Jason Hoffman - 02-09-2006
Firstly thanks for all the well wishes Mum and Baby both doing well.
Conon Yes Jarva's book is in English and can be obtained from
Historical Association of Northern Finland
Department of History
PO Box 1000
FIN-90014 University of Oulu
Finland
or
contact Kari Alenius (associate Prof at Oulu) at
[email protected]
Jarva is one of the professors there, I ended up finding his name in the Uni e-mail and sent him a message and he redirected it to the Historical association.
Re: Linothorax again - Duncan Head - 02-12-2006
Re: Linothorax again - Susanne - 02-12-2006
What is it with the sudden RAT baby boom?
Congrats, Jason!