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+---- Thread: Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii (/showthread.php?tid=23715)
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - Decebalus - 03-24-2014
I'm looking for information about a Coolus/Mannheim type helmet which should have been found in Pompeii according to Feugère, JRMES 5, 1994, p. 21 no. 29.
Has someone ever saw it or know where it is now?
As the only pictorial reference is given: F. v. Lipperheide, corpus cassidum (Berlin 1896) p. 278 fig. 335.
Thanks!
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - tiberius aemilius naso - 03-24-2014
In the section on Coolus helmets on Paddock's "The Bronze Italian Helmet", vol 2, you have plenty of info about it, and a drawing. I've just read it had been reused as a patera, adding a handle... quite an end! It seems to be in the museum of Naples, btw.
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - jho - 03-25-2014
Just in case, you are not aware of this: Paddock's work is available online for free:
http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1348999/
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - Decebalus - 03-25-2014
Oh, of course, Paddock... I forgot to have a look in his work....
Thank you, guys!
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - jho - 03-25-2014
For the sake of completeness, you may be aware that recently a unique helmet from Pompeii with a mixture of Mannheim/Coolus and Cavalry helmet features has been published. It has been discussed in this thread:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/18-references-a-reviews/302357-new-book-on-roman-army-die-armee-der-caesaren.html
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - tiberius aemilius naso - 03-25-2014
No pictures of that helmet... outside the book?
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - Creon01 - 03-26-2014
Quote:Oh, of course, Paddock... I forgot to have a look in his work....
Thank you, guys!
Paddock dismisses any idea that Italian helmets were ever cast and then worked to the final shape.
As at least one Etruscan Montefortino, on display at the Penn Museum, has a finger print on the rim I wonder if he would re-consider his position in the light of such information. The finger print is most likely from the original wax work, unless some other more modern method, by design or accidental, was the cause.
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - richsc - 03-26-2014
He actually says that 'most' were raised, so he suggests that some were not.
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - Creon01 - 03-26-2014
Quote:He actually says that 'most' were raised, so he suggests that some were not.
That is correct, he says "Most bronze Montefortino helmets were raised from one sheet. The processes involved are, similar, to those already described."
Most implies not all.
After saying that he seems to dismiss this very idea as later in the text he says this, "It has been suggested that certain Etruscan helmet forms (Egg 1988,244. ), most notably the heavy Negau helmets of type II, were pre-cast and subsequently reworked. However for the reasons outlined above (see chapter 1) this is thought by the author to be unlikely."
He then goes to explain why he feels casting was not used, "Not The least of these would seem to be lack of advantage in terms of time and cost saving if the armourer would have to go to the extent of not only making an original master copy, but also a new mould for each casting, running the ever present risk of such a thin casting (approximately only 2 mm. thick) failing, and then finally having to rework and decorate the item by hand. Certainly later Roman helmet production does not exhibit this precasting technique which would surely be likely if successful in view of their adoption of other mass-production techniques such as spinning (Paddock 1985,146-147. )."
Casting a bronze helmet into a semi-finished shape was not as uncommon as we once thought according to Manti, check out his work "Shiny helmets: investigation of tinning, manufacture and corrosion of Greek helmets (7th-5th c. BC)."
Mannheim/Coolus from Pompeii - Decebalus - 03-26-2014
Quote:For the sake of completeness, you may be aware that recently a unique helmet from Pompeii with a mixture of Mannheim/Coolus and Cavalry helmet features has been published. It has been discussed in this thread:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/18-references-a-reviews/302357-new-book-on-roman-army-die-armee-der-caesaren.html
Yes, this one is very interesting.
[attachment=9401]Helm_Pompeii.jpg[/attachment]
Is this fully discussed by Ortisi?