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+--- Thread: 6th Century Roman Kandys (/showthread.php?tid=23744)
6th Century Roman Kandys - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-30-2014
Hello,
I'm interested in knowing more about the 6th Century AD Roman garment known as a Kandys. I saw it on the Comitatus website, but a google search just turns up strip club websites. :dizzy:
Does anyone have information about this long-sleeved riding jacket, or possibly where it came from?
Thanks,
MMFA/Evan
6th Century Roman Kandys - Longovicium - 03-30-2014
Evan, are you referring to the Persian riding jacket with long sleeves?
http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/byzantium-and-islam/blog/looking-closer/posts/persian-riding-coat
I have not heard of the name you have used so I may be picking up on the wrong item . . . ?
A quick Google gives me the following sites of interest:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/candys-gk
And this:
http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/median-kandys-or-kantus-riding-coat.html
6th Century Roman Kandys - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-30-2014
Thanks SBH!
Even better, it says that the Persians adopted it from the Central Asian Steppe Nomads (i.e. the Huns).
6th Century Roman Kandys - Longovicium - 03-30-2014
Err, were the Huns around that far back? I mean, the earliest reference to the garment is in Xenophon I believe . . .
6th Century Roman Kandys - Longovicium - 03-30-2014
Here is a 6th Century AD depiction:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-InnSTR-jwF0/UfWDB2dFbQI/AAAAAAAADUU/vX0XV1I71u0/s1600/Roman+riding+coat+egypt.jpg
While it can be traced back as far as Achaemenid times here:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CpW9lzylGIA/UfVyByjz4nI/AAAAAAAADS0/xsWJ61Oo3Jw/s1600/achaemenid+flandin9.png
6th Century Roman Kandys - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-30-2014
In the Sassanian (220-650) context it says that it was taken from the "traditional riding dress of steppe nomad cultures."
It doesn't necessarily mean the originals were Hunnic (because they weren't) all I need to know is did the Huns use it? It seems the answer to that would be "yes."
6th Century Roman Kandys - Michael Kerr - 03-30-2014
The Medes themselves were nomads, probably Scythians or Saka so they would have had them a long time before Huns who came much later.
Regards
Michael Kerr
6th Century Roman Kandys - Longovicium - 03-30-2014
Yes, the garment is a steppe nomad one therefore predates the Huns by several centuries. Did the Huns use them? Are there any illustrations showing Hunnic attire with the long-sleeved riding coat?
6th Century Roman Kandys - daryush - 03-30-2014
1) The Antinoe coats are undoubtedly Iranian, not Roman
2) They are not related to Central Asian coats of the same period but may be descended from Median coats from the Achemenid era. Central Asian (Hephthalite and Sogdian) coats at the time were made with one or two large triangular lapels that folded out. Women wore these coats over the shoulders with the sleeves hanging, but men didn't.
Before the Hephthalite era in Central Asia, the most common type of coat appears to have been the cross-over coat common among the Arsacids and known (although not common) to the early Sasanians. There is very little good iconography in Central Asia before the 5th and 6th Centuries AD (at least, very little that I have studied)
3) The Antinoe coats are undoubtedly Iranian, not Roman
4) It would probably be a bit of a stretch using an Iranian coat found in 7th C Egypt (note that such coats do not appear in earlier Sasanian iconography - the off-centre straight vertical opening is a late feature, and restricted to Iran) in a ?4th/5th C East European Hunnish context. Are there no coats from Europe which may be more appropriate for you to use?
5) In case you missed it the first 2 times, the Antinoe coats are undoubtedly Iranian, not Roman, and should not be labelled "Roman."
6th Century Roman Kandys - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-30-2014
Yes, I understand it's Sassanid.
I am unaware of any Hunnic coats, but we know they wore long riding jackets of some kind.
6th Century Roman Kandys - Longovicium - 03-30-2014
Great - what's the reference for that?
6th Century Roman Kandys - daryush - 03-30-2014
BTW - just checked out the Comitatus website - are you referring to the 6th C warrior in the army of Justinian?
http://www.comitatus.net/armyages.html
(also, that lamellar makes me want to puke. It's not difficult to get period-appropriate scale and lamellar!?!)
IIRC, that coat is based on a 4th C Roman depiction. It differs from the Antinoe example in having a central front opening and sleeves that don't appear to be shaped like the Antinoe coat. Unfortunately I have completely forgotten in which piece of iconography I saw it - which is not much help!
6th Century Roman Kandys - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-30-2014
That image is why I asked.
Also, yes. Surprisingly enough Roman-Era lamellar is EXTRAORDINARILY difficult to find. It's possible to acquire the plates and make it yourself, but you can't buy it otherwise.
6th Century Roman Kandys - M. Val. Naso - 03-30-2014
Quote:Hello,
but a google search just turns up strip club websites.
And your question is?
Also:
Nadeem, you have to find that piece of iconography. It is a matter of life and death. I am very serious here, don't even think of irony.